45 ACP small primer- when did it start.

[Texas by God]

Small and large pistol primers were both in use in 1905 when the .45 ACP was born. They used large pistol primers because it was a large pistol. And I feel it should stay that way. Best, Thomas.

[6bg6ga]

Small and large pistol primers were both in use in 1905 when the .45 ACP was born. They used large pistol primers because it was a large pistol. And I feel it should stay that way. Best, Thomas.

Please provide the link to small primers in 1905.

[randyrat]

"Kind of makes you wonder what would happen if the .44 Magnum was available with SP pockets./beagle"

I have some Hornady brass that utilized SPP in the 44 mag

[6bg6ga]

The only reference to 1905 I can find is that Browning first started working on the 45acp in 1905.

[fatelvis]

I like the idea for my range ammo. I can switch from 38/357 and 9mm on my Dillon 550 without messing with changing the priming slide and tube. Personally, I don't think that I'm a good enough shot, or am involved in serious competition, that I would notice any advantages in accuracy that a LPP MIGHT provide over a SPP.

[6bg6ga]

If I had a large quantity of the small primer cases I would no doubt use them as it would cut out one more step in the change over on my Dillon 650.

[mdi]

FWIW; someone mentioned they would use small primers is enough small primed brass was available. http://www.diamondkbrass.com/.45-ACP-S.-PRIMER-100.html Found a couple others besides this one...

[Outpost75]

All the early .45 ACP collector ammo I have has either a large (.210"), or the Frankford Arsenal 0.206" diameter primer. I have never seen a US example of small primer .45 ACP factory ammunition manufactured before 1980. If somebody can show one I would appreciate a photo of the headstamp.
Here are some typical early .45 ACP rounds, all large primer:

Attachment 188990Attachment 188991Attachment 188992Attachment 188993Attachment 188994Attachment 188995

Modern use of small primers in .45 ACP ammunition was brought about by the need for nontoxic range ammo with lead free primers. The small primer pocket was used as a manufacturing expedient so that the ammunition factories only needed to produce one size of nontoxic, lead-free primer for use in all calibers of handgun training ammunition in .38 Special, 9mm Para, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. The small primer also serves as positive identification of nontoxic .45 ACP work-in-progress ammunition moving through the plant.

In my .45 ACP testing a small pistol magnum primer produces the same pressure, velocity and accuracy as a standard large pistol primer.

Using standard small pistol primers with H&G #68 200-grain SWC bullets and 5 grains of Bullseye powder, the velocity drop over a large primer of the same manufacture is about 40-50 fps. When using standard small pistol primers and Bullseye powder to obtain the same velocity as obtained with the large primer, simply increase the powder charge by 0.2-0.3 grain of Bullseye.

[matrixcs]

About 5 or 6 years ago CCI changed the blazer brass from large to small primer.
I know that is not the earliest but it does tell you that sorting by headstamp alone is not always enough.

[tomme boy]

Not all of the blazer is SP. I find the LP blazer all the time. Not just one or two but boxes of them. The rumor was the SP was for California and no lead. I had some NT labeled Win brass from around 2000. That was the earliest I found them.

[dragon813gt]

I don't mind separating large from small. Well it's not my favorite chore but it's an easy one. The problem is the NT brass. Some brands have enlarged flash holes. This goes beyond just the 45acp. But it means a lot more sorting before loading.

[anotherred]

Can anyone tell me about this brass. Reads FN 45 65 It has a SPP with a 3 way military crimp

[azrednek]

Can anyone tell me about this brass. Reads FN 45 65 It has a SPP with a 3 way military crimp

Just a guess, Fabrique Nationale 45 caliber 1965 vintage. Is it actually a small pistol boxer primer or could it possibly be Berdan primed??

During the 70 and early 80's I used to buy plenty of various calibers of FN marked surplus ammo at gun shows. I don't recall for certain but don't believe I came across any FN that were Boxer primed.

[Texas by God]

Please provide the link to small primers in 1905.

No link but .32acp, all .32 revolver rounds, .30 & 9mm Luger all used spp before the .45 ACP CARTRIDGE was developed for trials. I think but could be wrong that .38 Special, .38 ACP, & .357 magnum all started out with Lpp then were changed later to spp. Best, Thomas.

[ioon44]

Can anyone tell me about this brass. Reads FN 45 65 It has a SPP with a 3 way military crimp

I found one of these stamped FN 45 55, looks to me like it was originally Berdan primed and then some one drilled out the pocket out to use a boxer small pistol primer.

Nice thing about SP .45 brass is free brass a lot of shooters just leave it in the ground or give it away.

I reload with WSPM primers and get the same results as WLP, makes the change of 9 mm to .45 quicker on my Dillon 550.

[Shiloh]

Seems like Blazer was the original SP primer maker.

Shiloh

[44man]

"Kind of makes you wonder what would happen if the .44 Magnum was available with SP pockets./beagle"

I have some Hornady brass that utilized SPP in the 44 mag

Not good. I never use a mag primer in the .44 but the SP is not enough, could be like the SR in a .454. I don't think it was non toxic primers, I think CCI found a SP was better in the tiny case, like I did. Group size difference was amazing from a revolver.
Like federal that never used a LP mag in the .44. Still really a small case.

[azrednek]

I found one of these stamped FN 45 55, looks to me like it was originally Berdan primed and then some one drilled out the pocket out to use a boxer small pistol primer.

Not trying to jump way off topic. Back in the mid-70's a shooting bud and I tried drilling out some Berdan primed primer pockets. Pretty much unsuccessful. With three channels the expended primers usually backed out.

[Walter Laich]

SSP 45 brass is one of the reasons I don't run my Dillon 550 the way it was designed, empty case to loaded round in one cycle. Now I use one toolhead to produce primed cases, and run another to charge and seat bullets. It is a lot easier to sort out a jam from a mis-matched primer when you aren't dealing with dropping powder at the same time.

I do something similar:
take off the head and remove all the dies (sq deal here)
replace with head that just has deprimer rod
run brass through to deprime then into wet tumbler.
after dry will sort according to primer pocket
this gives me clean brass and chance to see clearly size of pocket
...still mess up sorting now and then

[mummer1973]

I reload on a dillon 550b. i bought some used 45acp brass with spp. i did this so i didn't have to change the primer tube and pocket.
i cant tell you how many times i put the small primers in the large tube and the tumbled every which way down the tube.