45 ACP small primer- when did it start.

[mjwcaster]

I thought that small primer was a newer thing with 45acp.

Sorting out a couple of k of 45's I just found a WCC 84 headstamp with small primer.

Pics didnt come out good enough to bother posting.

What is the oldest use of spp in 45acp you have seen?

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[azrednek]

"What is the oldest use of app in 45acp"

What is app??

Years ago I had some US GI 45ACP from the Frankford Arsenal dated in the 30's. A large pistol primer was to big and the small was loose. The FA brass' primer crimp was removed.

[randyrat]

I'm not sure when it started, but I save all the small primer 45 acp brass. If I ever run out of LPPs I can use SPPs.

I just sorted out 1500 pieces of 45 acp brass and found about 200 pieces of brass with 3 different head stamps with SPP pockets

( I think mjwcaster meant SPP and hit the "A" instead of the "S")

[6bg6ga]

I thought that small primer was a newer thing with 45acp.

Sorting out a couple of k of 45's I just found a WCC 84 headstamp with small primer.

Pics didnt come out good enough to bother posting.

What is the oldest use of app in 45acp you have seen?

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

The first time I ran across the small primer abortions was in 84. They are supposed to provide more and better combustion according to what I have read and heard from others. It started with Non-toxic ammo produced for indoor range practice.* The primer uses a different primer compound, from what I have researched, not the old standard lead styphnate. I try to go thru all my 45acp brass before loading and sometimes miss one or two which causes a problem down the line. I generally try to trade my small primer 45acp brass for large primer brass.

[w5pv]

I use the small primer brass to shoot in my 45 acp convertible works well and it keeps it separate from large primered brass

[44man]

I found the LP was too much for the tiny case. Mostly in the revolver but also in the 1911.

[fredj338]

The first time I ran across the small primer abortions was in 84. They are supposed to provide more and better combustion according to what I have read and heard from others. It started with Non-toxic ammo produced for indoor range practice.* The primer uses a different primer compound, from what I have researched, not the old standard lead styphnate. I try to go thru all my 45acp brass before loading and sometimes miss one or two which causes a problem down the line. I generally try to trade my small primer 45acp brass for large primer brass.

No it is just cheaper. A sp will actually provide LESS brisance so you will actually get slightly poorer combustion of some powders. at least that is what my chrono tells me.

[mdi]

A few years ago I read a side by side test, using a few different powders and bullets, between large and small primed 45 ACP. Good article, and pretty extensive. Seemed the major difference was the small primed ammo was about 25-30 fps slower than large primed ammo with identical loads...

[fredj338]

A few years ago I read a side by side test, using a few different powders and bullets, between large and small primed 45 ACP. Good article, and pretty extensive. Seemed the major difference was the small primed ammo was about 25-30 fps slower than large primed ammo with identical loads...

This has been my exp with several powders as well.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

The first time I ran across the small primer abortions was in 84. They are supposed to provide more and better combustion according to what I have read and heard from others. It started with Non-toxic ammo produced for indoor range practice.* The primer uses a different primer compound, from what I have researched, not the old standard lead styphnate. I try to go thru all my 45acp brass before loading and sometimes miss one or two which causes a problem down the line. I generally try to trade my small primer 45acp brass for large primer brass.

I think that date is pretty close. I bought a box of 25 Speer flying ashtray loads 'way back when, and used them sparingly for carry because they were pricy. They had nickel plated cases, so I was able to keep track of them, and just finally finished them up about 5 years ago. Then I went to reload them and discovered the difference in primer size. I asked a shooting buddy if he'd ever run across .45 ACP with small primers and he had not. But, since that time they are becoming increasingly more common. Frankly, I don't see any difference in ignition or performance, and don't care at all which I use. I just take care to sort them out before starting to re-prime them, because trying to jam a large primer into a small hole can be disconcerting.

[Josh Smith]

I seem to recall that the .45acp was originally small primer.

Josh

[LakeviewBulldog]

It may be just me but I have a bunch of SPP 45 brass that I batch load separately and to me it seems that the brass is a lot cleaner after shooting. Not near as sooty and the primer pockets are actually much cleaner. If were any cheaper or more available I would convert over to all SPP. It would at least keep the brass hounds off my brass at the range.

[376Steyr]

SSP 45 brass is one of the reasons I don't run my Dillon 550 the way it was designed, empty case to loaded round in one cycle. Now I use one toolhead to produce primed cases, and run another to charge and seat bullets. It is a lot easier to sort out a jam from a mis-matched primer when you aren't dealing with dropping powder at the same time.

[runfiverun]

my testing has shown that the SP magnum primers work better than the standard and are actually a titch better than the LP primers.

if the small pistol primer had existed when the 45 was developed it would have probably been used.

[tomme boy]

During WWII the FA 45acp had its own med sized primer. And I think they were doomed also. It was meant so that the pistol primers would not get messed up with the Large rifle primers on the loading line.

[azrednek]

I seem to recall that the .45acp was originally small primer. Josh

During the 70's I bought up a bunch of 45ACP from a gun show ammo collector and vendor's estate. I did have some dating back to the teens. I believe the oldest was dated 1914. Friend bought up a few 1912 or 13's's on half moon clips. I reloaded every one I had at least once. Don't recall any having an oddball sized or small primers except the FA from the 30's.

One of the old timers from my gun club back in the 70's claimed. The FA arsenal manufactured their own primers while others used outsourced primers.

I'm just speculating. I assume since FA used their own mfd primers they could use what ever size they wanted. Others I assume had to use and manufacture their brass's pocket to fit the primer size that was available. Again, don't take what I posted as the gospel truth its my speculating.

[Iowa Fox]

I found my very first one about 2005 or 6 in some range pick ups. It was just one case in several hundred it picked up. I knew they existed so I put it in a coffee can by itself. After a couple years I had a coffee can full of them. I actually prefer them for the ACP because I don't have to change the priming set up on the Dillon to run them.

[beagle]

As I recall, you're correct. The original .45 ACP was loaded with small pistol. Then, the government switched to a special size often referred to as the Frankfort Arsenal primer. This was a hassle logistics wise so they standardized on the LP size and this was gospel until they started messing with the non-toxic stuff.

I have found that comparing SP to LP loads that LP loads give a higher velocity and also indicate higher pressure signs for a given bullet load. In messing with cast loads in the .45 Blackhawk convertible in the heavier bullet ranges, I was able to get away with higher velocity loads with heavier bullets with less signs of high pressure in the SP cases.

When I noticed this I did a little reading and looked at two different cartridges that were using small primers out of the norm for the caliber. The .454 Casull and the higher end, high velocity loads for the .45/70.

Evidently, these companies have done the required pressure testing and have gone this route based on the results.

While I have never seen this discussed extensively, my testing and the resulting two high pressure loads marketed commercially seems to indicate that there is something to the theory.

I know that high velocity loads in the .45 ACP may not be the main interest of many, but the capability is there particularity in the Blackhawk convertible.

Kind of makes you wonder what would happen if the .44 Magnum was available with SP pockets./beagle


QUOTE=Josh Smith;3963281]I seem to recall that the .45acp was originally small primer.

Josh[/QUOTE]

[NavyVet1959]

I know that high velocity loads in the .45 ACP may not be the main interest of many, but the capability is there particularity in the Blackhawk convertible.

Agreed... I've shot my .45 SUPER +P+ (.460 Rowland loading, but using .45ACP brass) in a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk and it handled it just fine. That's around 1000 ft-lbs.

[6bg6ga]

Just dug out a loaded military 45acp date marked 17 U.S.C.C.O. which would be 1917 and it has a large primer.