pedersoli 1874 sharps bullet alloy

[SgtDog0311]

Aww yes, the BACO bullet club... it's a dang fun thing to be in, and like my wife says, a new mould costs less than a new rifle. LOL
When you get a hold of enough of those blocks that changing handles is a pain, get ahold of Red River Rick and get a few sets of his handles, best non locking handles made.

Never heard of Red River Rick but went and looked. Care to elaborate on what makes them the best non-locking handles?

I’m easily distracted (case of late-onset ADD) so I went and did a little inventory. I was thinking most of my Lee handles had alignment problems but I noticed my worst alignment was with an RCBS set of handles which adds a little wear on the alignment pins if you are a little careless in closing.

I generally have only one mould for each caliber but the 38-55 and the 40-65s are an exception. Then again I have two and three of those calibers respectively. I have two 32-40s as well but as yet have not picked up a mould for the Ballard. Brooks recommends Saeco handles with his moulds so I have intended to replace that one and I don’t have a set of handles for the Creedmoor. Just for grins and giggles here the list I just made:

Caliber Mould/Handles
30-30 Lyman/Lee
32-20 LBT/Lee
32Spcl RCBS/Lee
32-40 LBT/Lee
35Rem RCBS/RCBS
35-40 Brooks/Lee *want to replace these.
38-55 Accurate RD Clone/Lee
38-55 LBT/Lee
38-55 Old West NASA/Lee
38-50 Moss/RCBS
40-63 Accurate/Lee
40-65 RCBS 350/Lee
40-65 BACo Money/Locking BACo
40-65 Saeco/Saeco
40-65 BACo Creedmoor/None
45-70 Accurate/Lee

I’ve got two I was gonna stock with Saeco; money permitting I’d probably replace some others - but if Red River Rick is better than Saeco they are also cheaper unless his shipping is over the top.

Guess I'm straying considerable distance from the path here ADD is hard on the original intent of these threads.

[Don McDowell]

His handles are really well built and finished. The nice thing about them is the handles are not large in diameter and only about 6 inches long. They don't wear your hand down like the Saeco, and Lyman handles do.

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks Don.

[Don McDowell]

You bet. Looking forward to seeing how your new BACO bullet works.

[demon1953]

have you slugged the barrel to determine true groove size? also have you crony'd the load to see what the true velocity is? next step, brownells sells a garnet based lapping compound (800 grit) might want to lap that bore and see what happens. D

[SgtDog0311]

Fellas, on those 62gr loads, are you stacking wads to get the compression you want? 62gr and a .060 wad gets me just about .060 compression in a fireformed case (reviously shooting formed cases as yet fired so could be just a little difference in what I was getting with the first time through). From that 62 grain I'd calculate another 3 wads to get up over .200 compression. So next question: is stacking that many wads a common practice? Anything to look out for.

Btw... I turned my pot up and got almost another half-thousands on the drop size, using to 16:1. I'm hoping a little larger bullet might help on the leading issue. If it does with the 16:1 then I'm gonna drop back and try hotter with the DanT alloy. Probably wipe with both first, see how that goes then try the BT again.

I've got some more of the 62gr loaded and ready to seat. May check back on the wads question and possibly add wads to some pending the feedback. Thanks!

[Gunlaker]

Stacking that many wads doesn't seem to be very common. Zack Taylor ( Desert Deuce on Shiloh ) does this and posted about it on the Shiloh forum. He is a very good master class shooter and his ideas are always worth paying attention to.

Chris.

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks Chris! Just double checked the compression. Used a dowel to push the first one down and the difference between that and seating depth would indicate .040 compression with one wad. Add three to that (.180) and I'd have .220 with four wads and 62gr. Not my preferred but I think I'll load 15 with one wad, then a 15 with four and see what the target says. Just wanted to make sure I was not doing anything dangerous. Maybe try one target with just three for a total of .160 compression.

[Gunlaker]

I wouldn't worry about pressure with the extra wads. Just keep an eye on the case length to make sure that the extra wads aren't causing you any case stretching problems. I was running 2 x 0.060" veg wads + 1 x 0.060" LDPE in my .45-90 for a while without trouble.

Chris.

[SgtDog0311]

Well I have to call it improvement at least. The wind died down here enough to finally shoot some of these loads. I’m gonna break this up for the pictures sake. Everything shot off sticks since I don’t seem to do much better off bags and a bench.

I tried the 62gr of OE 2f in a couple settings. First was just the compression my seating and a .060 wad gave, which was minimal at .040 compression. I cast a little hotter to try and bump the drop size up and it worked to at least get the base band up past .409. The bullets I tried before were about .4085. They were DanT’s antimonial alloy so I was left wondering if it was size or alloy. Mixed some more and only after I was done realized I’d made 17:1, not 16:1 but looks to be ok. The base band at the base of the ogive is .3995, then as cast it goes to .400, .402 and then on to full size, although they are slightly smaller than the base band – still better than the .4085 however. I elaborate there to show the fit as leading was a secondary issue to the poor group sizes. Hard to see but if you are looking at the bullet in-hand you can see the imprint of the lands on the film of lube still on the top band. You don’t see much after that till you get to be band in front of the case mouth, where the lands and actually the full circumference of the groove diameter imprint on the first third of that driving band. Don’t know if that is optimal or not but there it is.

[SgtDog0311]

I initially shot five four-shot loads of smokeless just because I have more experience there and I wanted to eliminate the wiping vs blow tubing as a variable and I wanted to eliminate the rifle. In other words, if they shot then I know this BP should shoot. Looks like I could fine-tune here for some better groups. Anyway it satisfied me enough to move on with my BP loads.

[SgtDog0311]

So, first three five-shot groups were the 62gr with the .040 compression. I started with a change up from previous five breaths but after the first target I started back to wiping. Showed immediately. Even with just two or three breaths there was enough fouling to cause me to quit on the BTing. Previous outing with five slow breaths, breathing in my nose, caused enough fouling to look like a load of tar in front of the patch. Which is hows-come I dropped back to less breaths. Sorry for the orientation!

[SgtDog0311]

Next two groups were with four wads to get to .220 compression.

This was the only 1" 5-shot group I got. But it beats the heck out of the 5"-9" groups I was getting last time with the Blow Tubing.

[SgtDog0311]

Last group was with three wads for .160 compression (I think I inked in .180 but it was .160).

I don't know what the heck is up with the low flyer.

[SgtDog0311]

If anyone is interested in the velocities, ES and SD, I put them on paper. Was a little surprised to see the four wads didn’t change much, then surprised again when three wads did drop velocities. I may have transposed some numbers but these show the gist of things pretty close. Note the smokeless is on the tail end even though I shot them first.


Not sure how that would impact leading and since I seem to have that under control. Just a little smear at 12 o'clock on that patch... that is 10 o'clock if you tilt your head with the picture

I sure don’t want to back up any on the leading.

Any thoughts?

[Stevewhr]

That .220 compression load looks pretty exciting John. Would like to see that explored some more. My temptation would be fewer wads and more powder for the same compression, ie. perhaps 65 grains or something akin to that. The larger bullets and likely the better bump up appears to be offering you some returns. In that vein, more powder=more bump up perhaps. If you could get those bullets to cast ever so slightly larger I bet the leading would go away and perhaps your powder charges would work great. How bout I cast some of mine and my alloy and send them to you?

[SgtDog0311]

Steve, Might take you up on that but let me turn my pot up a little more first. Also gonna go back and cast some more of the DanT alloy at hotter temp and see if I get some gains there too. I am not giving up on that alloy yet. One thing I am sure as heck gonna have to do is get faster at wiping. I'd be leaving some steel animals at the speed I was moving today. Have to get some better mechanics at the sticks to be sure. I'll be blow tubing with the 38-50 this weekend but I'll be watching others, though most are on their shooting mats. I can't get down there so I have to learn more efficient motion at the sticks.

[Stevewhr]

Bang together a chicken box with the groove for your wiping rod, plus everything rides in the box that you can put right next you. I just remeasured my bullet. This time carefully with the micrometer. The base and the next 2 bands are .409" on the money, no pun intended. Then the nose south of the ogive is .400 as is the next, then .402". Still, I'd sure like to see a little more engraving on those bullets...

[SgtDog0311]

barnabus, Thanks for the patience with the piggyback. I swear this is all getting back around to 'alloy' from your original post. I am gonna see if hotter temps will bring size back around with the 97/1.5/1.5. And like you, that is all an effort to incorporate the wheel weights. I don't shoot anything as big as 530gr but if I did and it was with smokeless I wouldn't be afraid to use your wheel weights at all. I used to batch up everything I could collect with a probably 85- 90% being WW. Alloy comes out just under 11bhn; added just a little tin when I last put it all together. Never had any problems with leading or anything else shooting bullets .001-.002 over groove size. Even have a 38-55 I get away with right at groove size.

I have never shot your 5744 but I sure like the heck out of 4759 when I'm shooting smokeless and 5744 seems to be what everyone is replacing their 4759 with. Meters like dog food but in everything over 38, that or 4198 usually get me where I want to go. Fortunately I still have 12 lbs left.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I use a version of the PGT mould designed for the Pedersoli rifles. Cast 1:30 it weighs 546gns.