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Thread: pedersoli 1874 sharps bullet alloy

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    pedersoli 1874 sharps bullet alloy

    i recently bought a 1874 sharps target model and was shooting lino in my buffalo classic to get a large enough bullet using a 300 grain mold. i just purchased the rcbs 530 grain creedmore style bullet. my question is what is the best alloy for making a bullet for this rifle? i dont mind using lino at all,but have range lead,wheel weights and soft lead available.i will be shooting AA5744 smokeless powder not black powder in this rifle.Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
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    One good option is to mix your WW and soft lead (50%-50%) and to that, add 1% tin.
    In other words, a 101 pound batch would have 50 lbs-WW and 50lbs soft lead plus 1lb tin. Smaller batches use the same ratio.

    BTW- the correct spelling of Creedmore is 'Creedmoor'. It is often 'spellet' wrong.



    Have fun with that new sharps!
    Chill Wills

  3. #3
    Boolit Master




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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    One good option is to mix your WW and soft lead (50%-50%) and to that, add 1% tin.
    In other words, a 101 pound batch would have 50 lbs-WW and 50lbs soft lead plus 1lb tin. Smaller batches use the same ratio.

    BTW- the correct spelling of Creedmore is 'Creedmoor'. It is often 'spellet' wrong.



    Have fun with that new sharps!
    Mike, does that work with BP as well? I have lots of WW lead and it shoots tight groups for about 10 or 12 rounds and then the leading begins to ruin everything. I'm really good on pure but if I could integrate those WWs it would stretch my supply considerable and the tin as well.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz330 View Post
    Mike, does that work with BP as well?
    Bob
    Good morning Bob,
    Yes, I think it does. It is my go to alloy for any BP shooting and works especially well to hold the slump on the long nosed High Bc bullets often used these days.
    I use that alloy as a replacement for 16-1
    You will see it called Rix-Mix sometimes but I didn't name it that. DanT and Zack T started in with that name years ago.
    Last edited by Chill Wills; 02-22-2017 at 02:15 PM.
    Chill Wills

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Soundguy's Avatar
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    just don't try it in revolvers.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master SgtDog0311's Avatar
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    I wish I could figure out what I'm doing wrong. Mixed a batch of what should be close at 97/1.5/1.5. Bullets drop from a JIM409400M4 at .4085 but I lead enough to cause concern in my Cody .408 groove barrel - could be size. Just not sure. Have a great lube star with SPG but still leading. And leading seems to be collecting on top of the lands. Lube is proven, alloy is proven (from what I read nearly everywhere) but still leading. I have a lot to learn so go figure. Gonna see what that mold drops at with a 16:1 mix and if larger than .4085 then mayhaps I have to reconnoiter what the adjustments might be. Had thought to order a BACO with the base and next two bands at .410 and try that but could be I could make running temps higher and have the 409 produce bigger bullets. Like I said, have a lot to learn.
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    Best Regards,
    John

  7. #7
    Boolit Master SgtDog0311's Avatar
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    btw... mixing two issues (leading and fouling) but just in case anyone wants to venture in here... I was wanting to blow-tube rather than wipe but last trip, after suspecting leading due to group sizes I wiped it out pretty good and started over but wiping this time. Groups cut in half albeit still not impressive. I typically start out with three slow breaths, breathing in my nose. Having some advise to increase that I went to five. First patches before commencing with the wiping routine I pushed a huge amount of fouling out in front of the patch. Temps were cool, around 60 degrees and I wondered if I was not blowing TOO MUCH moisture with five breaths. The wiping certainly improved results but evidently still have a lot of load tweaking to do based on my groups still being unacceptable.
    Best Regards,
    John

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Leading on the lands, would be an indication the nose diameter is bigger than the bore..
    GUSA #6
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    John, when I first started using that bullet in my Shiloh I had more leading than I like to see. I pretty much always shot that bullet with 16:1 and spg, or dgl lube. I solved it in two steps. First was to adjust the bullet seating depth out a bit more so that there is a lube groove at the case mouth. This helped a little. Next, and most importantly was changing my fouling management as I believe I was getting some dried out fouling in the throat, or just ahead of it. I used to wipe with a Rhoades delrin rod and it's integral jag. Now I use a nylon brush threaded into the rod and put a patch on that. It helped a lot. The rifle leads only a very tiny bit even in hot weather, and is exceptionally accurate.

    Chris.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master SgtDog0311's Avatar
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    Don, the nose fits in the bore all the way past the first driving band. I thought perhaps it was bumping up back into the base of the nose but not sure. Alloy shouldn’t be allowing that but like I said, not sure. No way to recover bullets where I'm shooting at present.

    Chris, thanks for sharing your experience. Right now I am seating out so three lube grooves show and the groove diameter shows on the driving band just in front of the case mouth. Requires very little thumb pressure to seat. I was gonna drive over to John Walters tomorrow night to get some tin and then mix up some 16:1. Figured I’d at least eliminate the alloy as a variable even though I know Chill Wills and several others are making it work just fine. I figure it’s something I’m doing wrong for that reason.

    Is an integral jag those soft orange jags I see at the matches? Right now I have a brass jag on a delrin rod. I’ve seen those orange ones and I’ve seen people wiping with an arsenal patch on a nylon brush. I’d like to get where I could get away with blowing but I need to solve the leading first and can work on that as I go.

    Regarding my group size I keep reading that OE 2f needs compression and it appears that it might. I’d like to save my OE1.5 for my 38-50 so gonna keep increasing compression with the 2f. Right now I’m not much over .100. 66 or 67gr should push me into the .200+ range. That's up next.

    To the Op, sorry for the slight hijack!
    Best Regards,
    John

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    John, by an integral jag I just meant the one built into Steve Rhoades delrin rods. I have much better results with a reasonably tight patch n a nylon brush. It doesn't sound like it should make much difference, but it did for me. I'm not 100% sure why, but I imagine my old technique left some hard fouling behind. I'm using both Tipton nylon brushes, and Dewey ones.

    Chris.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master SgtDog0311's Avatar
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    Thanks Chris, guess I hadn't seen one of those integral jobs before. I shot one of my first matches with SSShooter from over on ASSRA and he was using the nylon brush. I thought it looked very handy. By the way, was your leading down in the grooves. I had just a little there also but as you can see from the patches it was also leaving signs from the top of the lands. It was unusual enough for me to take pictures.
    Best Regards,
    John

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Yessir, my leading was in the grooves. Maybe it's like Don suggests about the nose bumping up. I have a recovered .40 cal bullet that a friend gave to me. It's a Lyman Snover .40 cal bullet and most of the nose is heavily engraved. I don't know what alloy was used casting it, but it sure did bump up all the way.

    I switched to the nylon brushes after having a fouling problem in hot weather. Then I noticed that pretty much every other BPTR shooter was using nylon brushes . It seems like the next trend might be the Buffalo Arms wiping system.

    Chris.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master




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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    Good morning Bob,
    Yes, I think it does. It is my go to alloy for any BP shooting and works especially well to hold the slump on the long nosed High Bc bullets often used these days.
    I use that alloy as a replacement for 16-1
    You will see it called Rix-Mix sometimes but I didn't name it that. DanT and Zack T started in with that name years ago.
    I'm trying to work up a 40-65 load for that Brooks mold I got from you, with OE 2F. I had it figured out with Swiss but the OE is giving me fits. I get a good group one time but then it doesn't hold up for more of the same.
    In my 45-70 LR rifle it seems to just shoot almost anything good with the OE. I use 68gr for mid range and 73gr for LR and can't tell any difference in group size. When it doesn't shoot well it is the nut behind the butt, not the gun.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master SgtDog0311's Avatar
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    Bob, I tried 1.5 but nothing promising so sticking with 2f till I get up in the compression ranges people have recommended. Be glad if you kept me posted on your efforts and I'll do the same.

    On my leading issue I think I'll also load up some 4198. If I didn't get any leading that would tell me something about the nose setback.
    Best Regards,
    John

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    62 gr of 2f OE works pretty good with most bullets in the 40-65's that live here.
    I would think that since the nose is smaller than the bore, the leading probably came from lube failure/fouling control problems.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
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    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  17. #17
    Boolit Master SgtDog0311's Avatar
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    Thanks Don. 62gr was one of my "potentials". I tried some others a second outing because they were slightly smaller groups. From the chronograph 62gr gave the best numbers: Low=1310, High=1314, Avg=1311; ES=4.13, SD=1.73. Sample was only five but so were the others. I'll try that over again as well as going up and I'll change up my fouling management. A different BACo arrived today so we'll see if drop size is different as well. I'd like it if it were slightly larger. Hopefully I can blend another batch of alloy tomorrow.
    Best Regards,
    John

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Aww yes, the BACO bullet club... it's a dang fun thing to be in, and like my wife says, a new mould costs less than a new rifle. LOL
    When you get a hold of enough of those blocks that changing handles is a pain, get ahold of Red River Rick and get a few sets of his handles, best non locking handles made.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    I use 1-20 and 1-30 mix in my 45/110 and 50/90

  20. #20
    Boolit Master




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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    62 gr of 2f OE works pretty good with most bullets in the 40-65's that live here.
    I would think that since the nose is smaller than the bore, the leading probably came from lube failure/fouling control problems.
    62 was one of the loads that looked promising along with 59gr and a wad column that gave .260 compression. According to The Greenhill formula for my boolit 1338fps should be a good velocity. If SgtDog's numbers hold up that would be about right. I have a number of 62gr loads made up, just need to shoot them at 300 and see what they do.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check