Recommendation for a long range BPCR

[Big Mak]

I currently own two, in 38-55 and .45-70 (Trapdoor / Win 94)

If you were going to start practicing 2 years in advance for a competition, say...Matthew Quigley match, and reloaded your own, which caliber (45-70, 45-90, 45-110, 50-70, etc) and which specific rifle would you purchase if money were no object? (Okay, well, I do have a limit of about $3,000, so I guess some old Sharps would be out of the question)

I've been eyeing Pedi's for over a year now, but end up back on Rock Island Auction looking at original Sharps! Driving me nuts!

I don't mean to open the can of proverbial worms here, I just want YOUR opinion, and not stomp on someone else's opinion. Thanks!

[Randy Bohannon]

45-70 Shiloh Sharps,30" barrel, pistol grip,MVA soule long range sight, no regrets.

[Don McDowell]

Shiloh rough rider, 45-70. Unless you want to do something really different from the rest of the crowd and do that rifle in 44-77.

[sharps4590]

I don't think you'll open a can of worms or stomp on anyone's opinion, Mak. It's a more than fair question and you know what they say about opinions.

I'm partial to Shiloh's but Lord knows there's a lot of good rifles out there today that will meet your requirements. From affordable to "oh my goodness!!" Same with cartridges once you figger 'em out. For 13 years I shot a Shiloh Long Range Express in 45-70 and it was more than satisfactory. I don't know about the Quigley but seems I remember that rifle not quite making the NRA weight limit for BPCR if that matters. Could also be I'm dreaming that.

I have a Montana Rough Rider in 45-90, hence my handle. I really like it for a hunting rifle but it never quite "tripped my trigger" for LR shooting....there's that opinion thing...lol. My current long range set up is a Shiloh #1 Sporter in 40-70 Sharps Straight and I am very enamored of the cartridge and rifle. The old 40-82 WCF in an 1886 Win. is the first 40 that captured my affection and I like the 40-70 SS even better. Rear sight is an MVA but not a Soule, wish it was. Front sight is also MVA, spirit level, interchangeable aperture and windage adjustable. It is one of the 3 most accurate rifles I have ever owned.

Don mentioned the 44-77, a really cool old cartridge. I've never played with one but it is very close to the 11.15 X 60R Mauser cartridge, aka, 43 Mauser. I have around 20 years experience with that cartridge and it's a good one so the 44-77 should be also. Heck, the 44-77 was good 135 years ago and there's no reason it should have changed.

As far as an original, usable Sharps....talk about cool factor but that jumps entirely out of my league!!!!!

[Bent Ramrod]

If your Trapdoor has the Buffington sight, and a decent bore, you ought to be able to place in the upper 50 percentile at the Quigley, if you can shoot it. A good Trapdoor gives away very little to a modern BPCR, and it's mostly in the area of sight repeatability.

The Buffalo is the longest range target, at 805 yards. A .45-70 will reach out there with no trouble.

Funny you should mention $3000 as your upper limit. My half-around, semi-fancy standard heavy, pack-hardened Shiloh #1 cost almost exactly that after shipping, Fed&State excise taxes and FFL fee was added. Target sights, scope and mounts were extra, of course. Worth every penny, though; I'm just glad I'm not a Boating enthusiast.

If you're coming to the Quigley from Washington State, stop in Big Timber on your way to Forsyth, and visit the Shiloh and C. Sharps factories. You'll have a much better idea of what you "need" after that. (Heh-heh!) That's how I was inveigled into buying mine.

[BigAl52]

Shiloh Sharps Long Range express 45-100 MVA Buffalo Soule rear sight and MVA windage adjustable front sight. Had a lot of fun with it. Al

[Gunlaker]

A pistol gripped Shiloh with a shotgun buttplate with a heavy barrel. I'd pick .45-70 or .45-90.

Chris.

[Lead pot]

A Shiloh LRE or the Roughrider in the .45-90 caliber with a 30" barrel.
The .45-70 is a great cartridge but in time when you start shooting these gong shoots or the long range paper matches you will start loading the .45-70 like a .45-90. The .45-90 is more then enough for this type of game.
The Shiloh has a very high resale value if you ever need to sell it. It outsells just about everything on the used market.

I always have favored the 74 Sharps and I have several in different calibers, but another rifle to check out and that is the CPA 44-1/2.
The CPA 44-1/2 Stevens action has a lot of features I personally like better then the 74 Sharps action. The breach block is the best feture I like over the 74 Sharps. It will cam a cartridge in if the throat gets fouled where the 74 Sharps will not close the breach if the cartridge is not fully seated. Big plus when things heat up and the fouling control falls off. The center hammer is a plus on the CPA. Fully adjustable for different primer conditions. Say you want to use a soft pistol primer you can adjust the hammer strike so you don't pearce the primer.
You can change the barrels at the range if you have a second or more barrels for it of different calibers. Plus they are fine shooters.
I now have three CPA's and one more caliber in the works.
There are a lot of good options out there now days for this type of shooting.
Kurt

[northmn]

When one sets a price like $3000, how much does a good pair of sights cost?? Saying that because I am betting they are more important than the rifle in some ways.

DEP

[Lead pot]

Without good sights the best rifle is worthless.

[country gent]

If possible attend a few local matches and talk to competitors. You may get to handle some of the different ones and see them in use. The 40 caliber cartridges are probably about the min for true long range matches. 44s are getting some attention and developing a following. the 45s are established with good data and information available for them. I would look at some of the center hammer rifles also as lock time is better. ( High Walls, CPA Stevens 44 1/2, Hepburns). The pedersolis are good rifles not quite the fit and finish of the others and not as many choices or options available. The CPA C Sharps and Shiloh have a lot of options when you order one. You can get length of pull, triggers, barrel length, weight, desired chamber throat combo, ect ect. If you stay away from embelishments you can come pretty close to your budget for this project. The drawback to the above is the build time of 8 weeks+ for the rifle. Pedersolis if you find the one you want you can buy it right then and there no real wait. I think starting out with a 45-70 and a 500 grn - 535 grn bullet and a good load wont leave you wanting for much.

[Gunlaker]

When one sets a price like $3000, how much does a good pair of sights cost?? Saying that because I am betting they are more important than the rifle in some ways.

DEP

Check out the MVA web site and have a look at their long range buffalo soule, and a low profile front sight with spirit level. Not cheap but good sights really help. Some like the other brands, but I've tried a bunch of them and won't ever switch from MVA, with one small exception. I really like the Distant Thunder front sights.

Kurt, with regards to the CPA, I think Gail at CPA is a fantastic person to deal with. None better except maybe the people at Shiloh. I've got two of their rifles. They are very accurate, but are the most finicky rifles I've ever owned. It's rare that I can get through a days shooting without having to tighten up some screws somewhere on the things. Mine just seem to shake loose. Even with tiny .38-55 cartridges. But they are very accurate once you get them figured out.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

When one sets a price like $3000, how much does a good pair of sights cost?? Saying that because I am betting they are more important than the rifle in some ways.

DEP

If you were to order a Shiloh with all standard features, and have them install the MVA sights, the price tag will fall under the 3000$ mark, altho I would send them a Baldwin front sight to install on the rifle.

[Lead pot]

Chris.

Yes I have one rifle that had a screw problem that were on the loose side. They where on the forearm only Loctite fixed that problem.
I think the screw problem comes form the manufacturer. Someplace up in Canada makes their screws and I wonder if it might be a problem changing from the metric setup to inches. I had gail send replacement screws and some where tight and some fit loose.
Hard to say.

[Gunlaker]

That's interesting to hear Kurt. For me it's mostly the hammer screw and barrel screw that have come loose. I am torquing the barrel ones down tighter now. I also almost never swap out the barrels anymore.

Chris.

[country gent]

I check the locator screw before every match on my CPA as it has loosened up on me in the past. Atleast with the lossening and tightening back up it wont rust tight in place LOL. I believe its more barrel harmonics loosening it than anything. Same with the forend screws. Vibrations do strange things to screws and threads.

[Chill Wills]

For me, It would be very hard to top a Winchester Highwall in 45cal with a 16 twist or 17 twist. Stock lop correct for me. 15 inches. Baldwin rear sight and MVA Winchester windage front. Maybe a Distant Thunder front but I do not own one so I have no first hand knowledge. Do they have wind in them?
It could be a 70 or a 90, that part is the least important. I've used both extensively and won with both.

The biggest thing is to have an easy to use action that has some cam-in ability and correct fitting stock. Many good actions types out there but the highwall is very hard to beat for function and ease of use when you spend the day rolling around shooting on your belly.

And, you really need to be friends with your rifle. It needs to feel good when you shoot it. You can't do your best while fighting your rifle.

[Don McDowell]

Well ok then,, now that we've veered away from the Sharps,,, I would also vote for a C Sharps 85, add the single set trigger, and chambered in either the 44-70 or 44-90 st.

[bigbore52]

Among other cases such as the 45/70 (which will do the job perfectly well) I also use the 1886 Ped. Sharps 45/120 Quig model for long range and find either the Goodwin and the Soule sights best but that depends on distance. So not only what rifle you chose but the sights are just as important IMHO

few points to consider ..

1, you will need to clean your bore often using BP, some rifle actions are easier but some 'after market' sights will make that impossible (from breech end) - I know a few ranges won't allow access to clean from the muzzle during shoots
2, if you use the taller say 1000 yard sights, then doubtful you will be able to adjust them lower than 200 without removing the fitted rear barrel sight on some rifles just to see the front sight - that can prove difficult for hunting or shorter distance etc...so it may mean a rifle set for one purpose only...which seems what you are after anyway from your post
3, load development is essential because most of those cals you mention are easily capable along with others but unless it's enjoyable for you to use - you'll quickly lose interest and it will become a safe queen
4, visit some shoots, ask questions and see for yourself what people use, most will let you have a go of theirs once you chat....well, unless they use original Sharps.....best check their facial hair first before you ask...., just in case
5, don't expect to neuter gnats first up at 1000 yards....it will take time - but then that's the fun bit.....

Then when you are all set up and running, tell us what you get with some photos please but goods shootin' whatever you decide.......Lee

[Big Mak]

If your Trapdoor has the Buffington sight, and a decent bore, you ought to be able to place in the upper 50 percentile at the Quigley, if you can shoot it. A good Trapdoor gives away very little to a modern BPCR, and it's mostly in the area of sight repeatability.

The Buffalo is the longest range target, at 805 yards. A .45-70 will reach out there with no trouble.

Funny you should mention $3000 as your upper limit. My half-around, semi-fancy standard heavy, pack-hardened Shiloh #1 cost almost exactly that after shipping, Fed&State excise taxes and FFL fee was added. Target sights, scope and mounts were extra, of course. Worth every penny, though; I'm just glad I'm not a Boating enthusiast.

If you're coming to the Quigley from Washington State, stop in Big Timber on your way to Forsyth, and visit the Shiloh and C. Sharps factories. You'll have a much better idea of what you "need" after that. (Heh-heh!) That's how I was inveigled into buying mine.

Oh wow! Very cool! Thanks for the heads up!
Wife said "Not this year" for the MQ match, we're going to be really busy (Fishing in MN, Oahu, then Colorado to bring our son to his freshman year at Colorado Mesa)
We may stop at Big Timber on the way back. We're taking the "Long way" home via Custer battle field, etc.