Mainspring Question

[jjarrell]

Does anyone know what weight the mainspring is in for a full size T/C lock? To me it looks like the hammer spring in many revolvers. I'm curious if going to a slightly heavier mainspring would improve lock time/accuracy. I don't have any issues with ignition, and am not dissatisfied with my lock time. I was pondering if that could be a quick way to upgrade the lock instead of polishing. Or at least as a substitute if someone couldn't find a T/C mainspring if needed.

Going to a much heavier spring would probably affect reliability of the lock and may cause breakage. Which I don't want. Also the compressed length of the spring would need to be the same or very close for it to function properly. What are your guys thoughts?

[Omnivore]

Looks to me like you may be over-thinking it. Replacing a mainspring is not the way to improve the trigger. Improving the trigger is the way to improve the trigger. That or installing a set trigger, in which case you get the best of both worlds (strong, safe engagement and a super light release).

If you want to reduce lock time (and really? You're that skilled as a marksman, and you've tweaked your load, such that that's your remaining avenue for improving accuracy?) then reduce the mass of the hammer, especially far out from the center pivot, because that'll do more than a little increase in spring tension ("moment of inertia" and angular momentum and all that). A big old heavy hammer will accelerate more gradually than a heavier one. The more mass out at the end, away from the pivot center, the slower it will gain rotational speed, so remove some of the mass out there. Doing it without weakening it unduly will be the key. I'd probably order a new hammer before starting on that, just in case. Increasing the spring tension would my last choice in all of that.

[jjarrell]

Looks to me like you may be over-thinking it. Replacing a mainspring is not the way to improve the trigger. Improving the trigger is the way to improve the trigger. That or installing a set trigger, in which case you get the best of both worlds (strong, safe engagement and a super light release).

If you want to reduce lock time (and really? You're that skilled as a marksman, and you've tweaked your load, such that that's your remaining avenue for improving accuracy?) then reduce the mass of the hammer, especially far out from the center pivot, because that'll do more than a little increase in spring tension ("moment of inertia" and angular momentum and all that). A big old heavy hammer will accelerate more gradually than a heavier one. The more mass out at the end, away from the pivot center, the slower it will gain rotational speed, so remove some of the mass out there. Doing it without weakening it unduly will be the key. I'd probably order a new hammer before starting on that, just in case. Increasing the spring tension would my last choice in all of that.

First, I'm not trying to improve the trigger. I didn't mention the trigger. I was speaking solely on lock time.

Second, yes really. If improving lock time wouldn't improve your accuracy then that would explain your pessimism. However an accurate rifle is attained by modifying many small things for an overall cumulative improvement in accuracy. I won't say I'm that skilled of a marksman but my rifle shoots that well, and I'll leave it at that. There's always a better shot out there than all of us.

Third, I agree that a lighter hammer will also improve lock time. But the fact is I'm not grinding or removing material from my hammer. An increase in acceleration force will also increase hammer speed without decreasing its mass, thus decreasing lock time and preventing poor ignition because of lost hammer momentum.

Lastly, your reply comes off as smug and arrogant. While I appreciate your opinion on loading, marksmanship, and how you would approach improving lock time (and I'm not saying you're wrong) the fact is, its just that. Your opinion.

[RU shooter]

I'd try polishing all contact surfaces and some good lube on the surfaces and see what happens I know that did a lot by it self on my TC lock .

[jjarrell]

I'd try polishing all contact surfaces and some good lube on the surfaces and see what happens I know that did a lot by it self on my TC lock .

Good advice to decrease resistance. Much appreciated.

[koger]

Get a L&R replacement lock, will cut lock time in half!! I have one, or two!

[jjarrell]

Get a L&R replacement lock, will cut lock time in half!! I have one, or two!

Do you have to further inlet the stock to make room for the L&R lock, or does it drop in?

[Omnivore]

Sorry if this sounds smug, but the L&R replacement lock that I installed dropped right in. I had actually hoped that it would fit tighter than the original so as I could improve the fit compared to the original lock plate. But alas, it fit about the same.

Also; a lighter hammer means higher hammer velocity, and I would expect that to improve, rather than degrade, ignition reliability, within limits of course. My understanding is that it's not the foot pounds that ignite the primer so much as the shock (maybe we could say "peak pressure"?). Also; just speaking in general principle, a heavier hammer with a heavier mainspring ("heavier/faster") means more energy and momentum in the lock, which would seem more likely to move the whole platform during its operation, compared to "lighter/faster".

Sorry about all this; I'm maybe trying too hard to help. I thought I was being cordial and reasonable, and even engaging, but different people I have come to learn will have totally opposite reactions to the same comment. One person will light up, laugh and then thank me in a PM, and the next guy will want to punch me in the face. I quit trying to predict which will be which, and that way I can talk about what I love, and say what I mean, come what may.

And you're entirely correct of course; I read something about improving the trigger action which is clearly not there to be read, and for that I apologize. Likewise I would point out that you seem to have read insults or other such which also are not there to be read. My intent is to treat others as equals, to share what I've learned, have high expectations, and to learn something along the way.

I try to stick to the mechanics, or the craftsmanship, marksmanship, etc., and I ask that others do the same.

On the other hand, maybe I need a long break from all this forum talk. I spend the better part of my days in technical assistance at work already. Maybe that's where the "smug" comes from, such as it is-- I do this for a living. People call me with problems and I solve them. They buy my stuff and I get paid for it. Very rarely does anyone get offended, because they call me specifically for help and they get it.

[Omnivore]

Forgot to mention; when I say the L&R replacement lock "dropped in" I mean the plate and bolster dropped in. Otherwise the replacement required a LOT of extra inletting, for the flat mainspring (my original was a coil) the tumbler, sear arm, everything. I was regretting the loss of all that wood. So be prepared to do a substantial inletting job if you're replacing a coil mainspring Italian lock with the flat spring L&R. The plate dropped in and the lock screw hole lined right up, but overall it was a project, and one that I would not repeat without some very good reason which I can't foresee at the moment. The replacement also has a VERY stiff mainspring, if that's your aim. I've been tempted to shave it down a bit because, Holy Cow.

[jjarrell]

It's alright. No harm, no foul. I welcome your input and experience.