Scratch building rifle actions

[oldred]

A member here posted pics and info on his new design which is an extremely fine example of what can be built at home without requiring a shop full of big machines. Unfortunately that thread got a bit highjacked and was starting to stray off into building in general and the pros&cons of doing such so I thought there might be enough interest in homebuilding to start a new thread on the subject. So how about it, how many are interested in building their own rifle? Where do we get plans, materials and what kind of tools do we need? How much will it cost, etc? What about state and federal laws? Of course there are kits and castings available to make the job easier but these are pricey and the builder will have little to no leeway for custom mods, but then maybe that's ok? A much cheaper way is to start with just raw materials which can often be had for very little or if machinery is limited maybe just opt for one of the kits? the step from a raw block of steel to the point an unfinished casting would be upon arrival is fairly easy with just basic machinery and to me anyway it seems that in some ways it could even be easier due to the easier and sometimes less critical setup requirements.

Ok who wants to build a rifle action?

[footpetaljones]

Where do we get plans, materials and what kind of tools do we need? How much will it cost, etc?

Plans are spread out through various corners of the internet, but can be found with some Googling of "XXX blueprints" and other like terms (replace XXX with the firearm of choice". Most of them are incomplete or flat out wrong. I think the only complete blueprints I have are for the Luger, P38, 1911, and GB-22 (sold by the designer Mark Serbu). However, some plans have turned up from the National Archives in Maryland (though not complete).

Materials are often not specified in plans you can find, though it is certainly as important, if not more important than getting the dimensions correct. Making something out of aluminum that needed to made of a grade of hardened steel can be deadly. A general guideline I follow for my projects is 6061 aluminum when a part isn't stressed, 1018 if it needs to be steel, 4140 if it needs to be good steel, A2 if it needs to be tool steel, and specialty materials when required.

As for tools, you could get away with a hacksaw and a file if you have plenty of time. Realistically, though, you need a good sized lathe and mill to do basic work, as well as measuring tools (calipers/micrometer). A 10" South Bend lathe and a Clausing 8520 mill are examples that are a good size for a hobbyist. Needing rotary tables, vises, surface plates, etc., etc., is dictated by what you are trying to do. I know one guy who didn't buy a vise for his mill until two years after he got it. He would just stick a parallel in one of the T slots, butt the work against it and clamp down. The biggest limit a machinist faces is their imagination.

As far as I'm aware the only kinds of kits available are "80%" guns, not any kind of castings.

[Red River Rick]

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[oldred]

The biggest limit a machinist faces is their imagination.

As far as I'm aware the only kinds of kits available are "80%" guns, not any kind of castings.

Now that's the kind of post I was looking for thanks!

My post may be a bit unintentionally misleading as I am already a builder and the intent is to get folks who are interested in doing this to come forward with questions, ideas or any other info that a beginner might be interested in, your excellent post is just such an example. There are at least a couple of castings kits available, Upper Missouri trading company for one,

http://www.uppermotradingco.com/index.html

and Boulder River Foundry I think still offers an 1885 HighWall castings kit in various configurations. Also your statement that "The biggest limit a machinist faces is their imagination" is dead on and could not be more true, determination and imagination are probably the builder's most important tools. As far as machining I have a friend that I have mentioned several times that is almost finished with his 1885 copy built using the Ebay plans set and nothing more than a small lathe and a mini-mill, you are right about the errors but these are relatively minor in this plans set. This has been discussed in the past and is easily remedied by a minor lever alteration to slightly relocate a link pin, everything else has worked out quite nicely. For those worried about machinery the Frank DeHass designs can be built mostly with hand tools but things like a mini-mill can be bought used for less than the cost of a castings kit and a used knee mill can be had for little more (sometimes about the same or even less) than the cost of a new factory SS rifle. The material can also be had for little if a person can do a bit of scrounging, most machine shops will have droppings or left over small pieces they will sell for next to nothing and often will even give away pieces already destined for the scrapyard, the fellow I mentioned with the plans got his 4140 locally from a small shop for $20! The most expensive part is likely to be the barrel but even that does not have to break the bank, used take-offs or other donor barrels can be used of Green Mountain offers EXCELLENT "Gunsmith Special" raw barrel blanks in various calibers for less than $50 plus shipping. I have used these and I can vouch for them being top-notch but if a raw barrel that needs contouring in addition to threading and chambering is not appealing they also have finished barrels (except for the chamber) for around $200-$300 dollars as do several other barrel makers.

[modified5]

I have a couple of projects in the works. It will.be nice when my shoulder heals up.enough from surgery to get my mini mill and lathe set up.
Then I can really get started on them .
I am and have most of the materials for 2 Darcy falling blocks. One in 30-30 and one in 45-70.
I have enough 4130 prehard to make 2. If I don't screw one up!
I also have in the works a single shot bolt action in .22lr using a piece of çv axle shafts for the reciever, a 10\22 barrel and fcg with an AR pistol grip and an AK folding stock. Quite the Frankenstein build!
I have built a Leinad .45\410 derringer from a kit. It was super simple.
I buy used barrels off of eBay or at gunshots or from friends.
I have a 94 winchester barrel and a Marlin 1895 barrel for my Darcy projects.
My Marlin is the most expensive barrel I have bought at $118.
Anyway, most people with a bunch of research, a modicum of skill and a whole bunch of tenacity can pull off some very respectable builds.
Most of all, be safe and have fun!

[oldred]

Anyway, most people with a bunch of research, a modicum of skill and a whole bunch of tenacity can pull off some very respectable builds.

Agreed, I have talked with several folks who said to the effect "I sure wish I could do that" and I knew for a fact they could if they tried. There's nothing mystical about building a rifle or even a pistol, how elaborate you get with it depends more than anything else on how much time you can/are willing to devote to it but regardless it dang sure beats watching TV! I had just a lathe with a simple homemade milling attachment and basic tooling when a local guy came by and asked me to make him an extractor and a hammer for an 1885 Winchester, while making these parts (fairly difficult with that milling attachment but a breeze on a mini-mill) I got to thinking that hey if I built all the parts I should be able to assemble them into a gun right? Well it turned out to be far from that simple and if the only reason a person wanted to do it was just to obtain a rifle then it simply wouldn't be worth it but there is a heck of a lot more to it than just the end result, the gun you get is just the icing on the cake! I found that I really enjoyed this hobby and wish I had started sooner, if there is one thing that's as much fun as shooting a rifle it's building one!

How big is your lathe? I ask because I had one of the common little 9x20s that are sold by a number of different importers under different brand names, even Harbor freight, and although the lathe I have now is much bigger I have no doubt that even one of those little fellows would get the job done with maybe the exception of the barrel, but then even that would depend on barrel length and what needed to be done. I also have a mini-mill and that darn thing is so useful that I kept it when I upgraded to full size shop equipment and despite having a full sized knee mill in the shop now I use that little one very often because it's just so darn handy. The point is that full sized machinery is not necessary, it's nice to have and can make things easier and faster but the finished rifle or pistol should be the same regardless and those little machines can be found dirt cheap.

[modified5]

oldred, my lathe is just a little 7x14. I really wish I had saved and bought a bigger one. It is one of the little Chinese deals. I think I payed $700 delivered off of ebay. It has worked well for what I have done so far. My mill is a HF special. I am really looking forward to getting my shoulder healed up enough to start these projects while I am off work. I do need to get a coupled of taps and a die but right now I can't really afford them with what workers comp is paying me.

[Billthomas]

To Oldred, I think you know where I stand, the more builders the better. bt

[JWT]

I have been planning to build a Mueller falling block for years, but work and kids have been taking priority.

[Wolfer]

My ( machine shop) wouldn't be much by most standards and I have certainly never been called a machinest. However it's something I really enjoy playing on and by going slow and doing some thinking I often surprise myself. Soon I plan on building a mill attachment for it.

My longtime goal is to build a falling block rifle along the lines of Darcy's. I don't feel I'm ready for that yet.

edit
In looking at the picture of the ( wiring) it should be obvious that I'm a journeyman electrician. When I'm off work electrical work is the last thing I want to do.

[HollowPoint]

My interest in this thread is more along the lines of the types of metals to use for the specific components of a home made rifle action. It seems that most guys here are looking to make "Falling-Block" type actions or rifles. I have no problem with that. Some day I hope to build a similar type firearm.

The knowledge I'm hoping to find deals a little more on the metallurgical side of building a rifle. From there I can be confident that when I do build the rifle designs I have in my head, it will mitigate the chance of it blowing up in my face.

An example: Right now I'm wanting to tighten up the tolerances of my military surplus rifles. Because they are made to loose "Battle-Field-Condition" tolerances. I'm hoping to be able to fabricate tighter tolerance replacement parts such as Bolts and Bolt-Faces like on the old Enfields and the K31's. I'm sure I can fabricate duplicate parts but, I need to know what metals or metal alloys will be suitable and safe to use. Heck, with this type of knowledge a guy can even make his own conventional bolt action rifles.

I guess you guys are on to something by starting out with the "Falling-Block" designs. We all have to start somewhere so I guess that might be a good place for me to start too.

HollowPoint

[footpetaljones]

Hollowpoint, one thing you could try is to buy a set of hardness testing files and use them on the parts you want to replace. That would give you a rough idea of whether a softer metal like 1018 would work of 4140 is called for. Generally it isn't necessary to replicate the exact same metal, so long as the metal you use has similar strength.

[Iron Whittler]

I have been toying with the idea of a Big 50 BMG. I have detailed build blueprints & instructions for single shot, bolt action rifle and 2 new in the cosemoline M2 barrels and 4140 steel to build. Just to get time to do it. Equipment wise, Lathe, Vertical mill w dro, shaper, precision surface grinder. I'm a retired machinist and 'smith. I would like to build falling block 45-70 as well. But being retired don't mean you ain't busy. Still ain't figured out how I worked a full time job and got anything else done. Iron Whittler

[perotter]

I'm going to have to check into the plans for a HighWall. It would be nice to do a hobby project for a change. I have the shop equipment that would make it easier to do it.

Thanks for starting the thread.

[oldred]

I'm going to have to check into the plans for a HighWall. It would be nice to do a hobby project for a change. I have the shop equipment that would make it easier to do it.Thanks for starting the thread.

Those plans do contain an error that could cause some confusion so be aware of that, the "ears" on the lever where the link pin attaches are a few thousandths too long and tilted forward a bit too much, this not only causes binding against the hammer upon full opening but also results in the breechblock falling back down slightly after reaching the top of it's travel when the lever is closed. Not a real problem if you are aware of it before the parts are made but a real PITA to correct once holes are drilled, etc!

I was working from a sketch from an original lever so I didn't run into this but the other fellow I mentioned had just about pulled out what little hair he had trying to figure out what he had done wrong, when his lever was placed over mine the problem was readily apparent. Other than that those plans are darn good and include everything you need to know right down to the wire size and dimensions for making your own main spring, stock/forearm, pins and even the screws. Those plans are available from several places such as Ebay, ASSRA, etc but I have been told by several folks they are all the same drawings so that error will be in all of them. The ones from Ebay are good copies with sharp easy to read printing and well detailed drawings, you can have these blown up to a much larger size if desired but the fellow I have been talking about is quite happy with them as they are and saw no need to enlarge them.

[Pavogrande]

My dream is a bit less in magnitude -- I would like to make a "boys" rifle along the design of the page-lewis making the receiver out of several thickness' of hot rolled or cold rolled bar stock laminated length wise and perhaps riveted together --

But I have bolt to make for a 340 mauser single shot first --

I sold my 12 atlas for the move so only have a 7x14 grizzly now --

[EDG]

To me the hardest part of making a rifle is the stock. I have relatively little experience or skill in that form of wood working.

The metal work is easy given 45 years of engineering and manufacturing work.
Some day I hope to sit down with an original Highwall, Ballard, Remington Hepburn and a Stevens 14 1/2 and make engineering drawings for all of them. Then I would take what I learned and see what I can come up with using the best characteristics of all 4 in one design. I spent about 10,000 hours running lathes and about 4,000 on mills so I can handle the machine work but inletting a stock perfectly is a tough chore.

[Polarbear31]

The Remington Model 6 seems popular on a couple of build sites. I planned on building one this summer in 22 WMR.

Jake

[ulav8r]

My interest in this thread is more along the lines of the types of metals to use for the specific components of a home made rifle action. It seems that most guys here are looking to make "Falling-Block" type actions or rifles. I have no problem with that. Some day I hope to build a similar type firearm.

HollowPoint

4140 is popular for actions and other parts. Pre-hardened 4140 is just hard enough for a tough action but is still easy to machine. The bolt or breechblock should be a few points harder than the action to minimize galling as the parts move against each other. 4140 can be hardened much harder than the pre-hardened condition to satisfy the need for different hardness. 4140 is popular because of the relatively low cost, ease of machining, strength, and its ability to be hardened to desired levels.

8620 is popular for actions that are to be case hardened. Its lower carbon content does not allow hardening by simple heating and quenching, it requires the extra surface carbon given by case hardening. Properly case hardened it will be very tough. Higher carbon steels such as 4140 are more apt to be brittle if color case hardened. I've seen that Turnbull color hardens 4140, but 8620 is better if starting from scratch.

O1 drill rod is good for pins, screws, and other small parts. It can be used over a wide range of hardness to suit the requirements of different parts.

1018 can be used for case hardened parts. It is cheap but does not machine as well as many other metals, as in it does not cut cleanly or give a good finish as cut.

S7 is another good metal where hardness and toughness both are required. A common use for it is rock drills but it will also make a tough action or bolt.

Mauser actions and bolts were made from lower carbon steels that were case hardened to provide suitable hardness.

For a suitably designed action, the above metals can be heat treated by the builder with good results. For replacement of existing commercial or military actions, I would recommend commercial heat treating because the designs were optimized for use of as little material as possible without making them fragile. Also, many were designed around lower pressures than are common today.

[HollowPoint]

4140 is popular for actions and other parts. Pre-hardened 4140 is just hard enough for a tough action but is still easy to machine. The bolt or breechblock should be a few points harder than the action to minimize galling as the parts move against each other. 4140 can be hardened much harder than the pre-hardened condition to satisfy the need for different hardness. 4140 is popular because of the relatively low cost, ease of machining, strength, and its ability to be hardened to desired levels.

8620 is popular for actions that are to be case hardened. Its lower carbon content does not allow hardening by simple heating and quenching, it requires the extra surface carbon given by case hardening. Properly case hardened it will be very tough. Higher carbon steels such as 4140 are more apt to be brittle if color case hardened. I've seen that Turnbull color hardens 4140, but 8620 is better if starting from scratch.

O1 drill rod is good for pins, screws, and other small parts. It can be used over a wide range of hardness to suit the requirements of different parts.

1018 can be used for case hardened parts. It is cheap but does not machine as well as many other metals, as in it does not cut cleanly or give a good finish as cut.

S7 is another good metal where hardness and toughness both are required. A common use for it is rock drills but it will also make a tough action or bolt.

Mauser actions and bolts were made from lower carbon steels that were case hardened to provide suitable hardness.

For a suitably designed action, the above metals can be heat treated by the builder with good results. For replacement of existing commercial or military actions, I would recommend commercial heat treating because the designs were optimized for use of as little material as possible without making them fragile. Also, many were designed around lower pressures than are common today.

At one time I had made up CAD drawings of an Enfield Bolt-Head. I was wanting to fabricate my own because I was having problems with head-spacing and none of the Bolt-Heads I could find were exactly what I was looking for. I either had to remove the barrel and turn down the shoulder of my barrel tenon a few thousands, get lucky and find the correct length factory Bolt-Head, re-barrel completely or make the correctly size Bolt-Head myself. In the end I re-Barrel and it seemed to solve my head-spacing problem for good.

The thing that kept me from making my own Bolt-Head was the fact that I wasn't sure what type of metal would be suitable for that application. The same holds true for the actual Bolt of my Enfield rifle. I'd like to take as much of the slop out of the bolt itself as I can by turning a new one but I'm not sure exactly what type of metal to use and, I'd like to not have to do any hardening if I don't have to. The same with the Bolt-Sleeve on my K31. It's a good enough fit but in the back of my mind I've always believed that a slightly tighter tolerance fit in my trued K31 action would benefit me greatly.

I know I can make the parts but what I don't have is the confidence to pick the correct metals for the given applications. 4140 keeps coming up in the conversations but it always seems to have a caveat attached to it; it has to be pre-hardened or hardened and quenched or some other post machining process that goes beyond my present skill sets. I had hoped that somewhere along the line I'd pick up on some tidbit of information that would help me pick a suitable metal that could safely withstand the pressures of say, a 308 winchester cartridge or it's variants. This would be more than enough of a safety margin to handle the cartridges fired in most military surplus rifles; or at least the ones I'd be working with.

HollowPoint