GP100 44 special strength .

[Lloyd Smale]

never been a gp100 fan but one in 10mm might get me to take a chance on one. It would make a gun that would be great to shoot 40s out of too.

[usbp379]

never been a gp100 fan but one in 10mm might get me to take a chance on one.

Interesting that there seems to be a certain level of interest in a 10mm revolver while the semi-auto 10mm (and now the 40S&W) are a dead and dying breed.

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[Lloyd Smale]

The 40sw is FAR from a dying breed. Id bet more 40s are sold in this country then 45acps or 357 mags. 10mm is far from dead too. It doesn't have the sales numbers the 9s 40s and 45s have but theres new 10s announced every year. Sig just came out with on this year. Colt, S&W, Sig, CZ and Glock chamber 10s and I know theres so more that slip my mind.

[usbp379]

I was being somewhat melodramatic but 40S&W sales have definitely taken a slump. Case in point is the Ruger American. The pistol is being sold in 45ACP and 9mm but not in 40S&W. Now the case can be made that Ruger isn't going after LE market and there never was a strong commercial interest in 40. But even then Ruger makes 40 S&W pistols in the SR line and used to make the old DA/SA P-series guns in 40.

But we'll see. Stranger things have happened. Truth be told I'd be in for one myself if and when Ruger makes one.

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[mcdaniel.mac]

I was being somewhat melodramatic but 40S&W sales have definitely taken a slump. Case in point is the Ruger American. The pistol is being sold in 45ACP and 9mm but not in 40S&W. Now the case can be made that Ruger isn't going after LE market and there never was a strong commercial interest in 40. But even then Ruger makes 40 S&W pistols in the SR line and used to make the old DA/SA P-series guns in 40.

But we'll see. Stranger things have happened. Truth be told I'd be in for one myself if and when Ruger makes one.

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10mm is niche, but more popular than .41 mag or .38 Super, especially with Glock bringing on the 41MOS and Sig doing the 10mm 220 SAO.

I don't know much about 41 SPL, but 10mm should be a close match. 180-220gr between 1200 and 1000fps, yeah?

[Lloyd Smale]

ballisticaly the 41special and 10mm are about kissing cousins in a stoutly built gun like a gp100. What one will do so would the other. Big advantges to me are moon clips in the 10mm and brass though not easy or cheap to find can be found. the 41 special has had a couple runs of brass but its mostly a make your own deal. Another advantage to the 10mm is in a pinch it can shoot .40s&w ammo that can be found about everywhere and brass is cheap and easy to find. As a matter of fact id buy one in 40 too if they made it. Cheaper to shoot and if a guy wanted a cheap run of a reamer and youd have a 10mm.

10mm is niche, but more popular than .41 mag or .38 Super, especially with Glock bringing on the 41MOS and Sig doing the 10mm 220 SAO.

I don't know much about 41 SPL, but 10mm should be a close match. 180-220gr between 1200 and 1000fps, yeah?

[jrayborn]

The GP100 in .44 Spl has a plenty strong cylinder. I am just not sure how much the forcing cone can handle as it is mighty thin. I am running 240 grain cast and jacketed over 14.5 and 15 grains of 2400 respectively and getting good accuracy, but have not chrono'd anything yet and plan to tone it down a smidge. It's fun playing though...

[Lloyd Smale]

My 696 smith has a paper thin forcing cone but has held up to thousands of round. What I don't do is shoot jacketed bullets or ball powders in it. I tend to stick with bullets like lfns that have a nose that allows a gradual ride into the forcing cone if something isn't lined up just perfectly. Don't know if that's necessary but all I know is its held up to many thousands of rounds and some of it keith level loads and is no worse for wear today.

[smkummer]

I was just shooting my Colt New Frontier 44 special with a 7 1/2 barrel and 7.5 grains unique/Lyman 429421. At 15 yards, it was a big almost 1 ragged hole group. (Lyman 429360 with 5 grains 700X was double the group size, I have yet to find a accurate load combo with that bullet). I see Keith referred to that load as a light gallery load when I must be 900-950 FPS and 500 FP energy, certainly more than just a light gallery load. I would think in a short barrel, unique would give results close to 2400 as more of the powder would burn. Maybe someone can chime in who has cronographed shorter barreled 44 specials.

[ironhead7544]

From a 3" S&W 44 Special, I chronoed the Skeeter load at 845 fps and the Keith load at 985 fps.

[johnson1942]

i dont get this magnum stuff. its not fun to shoot. in a self defense situation a well placed bullet is more important. if it passes through a body it does not register what it took to do it. i think pushing the limits of any gun is child like at its best. i avoid all i can guys who do these kind of things. it is a part of other things in their life also. it is easy to get killed around these kind of guys.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
This is an interesting read as the Ruger GP100 in 44 Special is my next venture. Have been carrying 44 Special for years and have no doubt a 240-255 gr cast at 850-900 fps will terminate any issue I will need settled.
And a 5 shot so nicely carries in a holster or my kayak mounted holster. The Ruger will do all I need done and hopefully never needed badly.
Mike in Peru

[Blackwater]

I've tried to stay away from this thread, but being a .44 anything fan, I just couldn't. As to the original question, you're asking for opinions, when what you REALLY need is good, proven answers. But Ruger won't release such info, lest they be seen as culpable when some idjit blows up his gun with magnum+ loads. And if Ruger, who is the only ones capable of really calculating and testing the gun, won't help, then you're at the same point ol' Elmer was so long ago now, and you're just gonna' have to do some experimenting, but then, ONLY if you're willing to put your gun at risk (and they won't replace it under warranty if it shows clear signs of abuse), and just maybe, your life or significant body parts, like your shooting hand. A blowup could also put bystanders at risk, and could cost you everything you own. So if none of that dissuades you, do what Elmer did and go shooting with like minded folks in very small groups, with the onlookers well behind you, and not to one side. Then, experiment to your heart's contentment.

However, I suspect you'll do like 3 friends of mine who have the Rossi 3" .44 Specials, and you'll find, especially if you plan to carry for self defense, that followup shots are MUCH slower with the heavy loads, due to the increased recoil and the time it takes to pull the gun down out of recoil, that a milder load is MUCH more sensible in the gun. They're all shooting the 200 gr. Lee RNFP over 7.0 gr. of Unique, and they're very happy with it. You never know in a SD situation, how many friends will be with the bad guy. Lighter loads, but still good stoppers, make your odds of survival much improved if you should have to shoot fast at multiple targets, and these days, most bad guys approach in small groups, so ..... govern your choices accordingly.

However, in all this somewhere, you'll have to take into consideration that i once blew up a Super Blackhawk, so I have become MUCH more "reasonable" in what I strive for these days. I think you're gonna' find that 20K psi. loads will give you as much recoil as you'll be able to really enjoy in that gun. A few a little hotter would be a reasonable test. Personally, I can't imagine any real need or any real necessity for more than 7.5 gr. Unique with the 250 gr. SWC's. That's probably around 20-22K psi. and should do anything a hotter load will do. That 250 penetrates quite deeply, and the hottest thing I plan to try in my Flat Top is 8.0 gr. Unique with the 220 gr. Lyman 429215. As I've grown older, it's finally dawned on me that you can only kill something or somebody just so dead, and all that "extra" is mostly for our titilation, and NOT really any real advantage. ESPECIALLY in a self defense situation. What you want in a self defense situation is ENOUGH power AND rapid follow up potential. Gov'ts and the factories have been experimenting with these parameters for a very long time now, creating the 10mm and .40 S&W in an effort to find a caliber for new police and LE guns that gets the best of those two worlds put together.

But hey! I was once into bragging rights too, so I understand the allure of "more power" in the Tim Taylor manner. Just be VERY careful and wise, because as has been mentioned, Elmer and friends blew up a number of guns in the process of their experimenting. And also, there's the additional factor that softer recoiling guns are easier to PLACE the bullets with, and bullet placement almost ALWAYS makes more difference than a little more speed with any particular bullet. So there are many factors, albeit not quite as exciting, and thus less often covered, that counter-indicate the heavier loads.

I really have the bug for one of these new guns, and if I get one, which seems likely at some time in the near future, I won't be trying to hotrod it, but will look for good "stopping" loads that let me make followup shots quickly. But I'm older and have all that tostosterone driven madness kind'a out of me .... well, usually .... and I tend strongly to have my sights set on more sustainable loads and power levels. The .44 Special, with good bullets and not too hot loads, will outshine the .45 ACP, and the .45 has a stellar reputation extending back for 100 years of performance equal to most anything you can use it for, and most particularly for self defense. Afterr all, what will a 200-250 gr. FN bullet at 900-1050 fps. NOT kill readily, with a decently placed bullet???? And all hopes of stopping with a poorly placed bulet are a pipedream, unless maybe you're shooting a velocity of Mach 2.5 or better. Handguns kill almost wholly from impact effect (thus the FP bullet) and tissue damage. You just don't have the crushing shock wave very high velocity brings to the table. So the wise concentrate on bullet placement. That's my take on it all, anyway, FWIW, if anything?

Just be careful. There's a LOT of folks now getting bolder and bolder in their "experimenting," and they seem to think they're immortal and that things are always gonna' work like they expect them to. But that didn't work for Elmer and crew, and they ruined a number of very nice guns in their experimenting. ANYONE whose JOB is to experiment ALWAYS takes every safety protection they can get. Just going out and seeing how much a gun will take before it blows just ain't very bright, and seems destined to cause problems eventually, of one sort or another. Be VERY sure not to shoot experimental hot loads around other shooters, like on a range with other shooters to the right and left on the line. That is VERY risky, and puts all you own on the line as well as your life and body parts! They trust everyone on the line to have sensible, proven loads. Don't ever violate another shooter's trust. It CAN lead to all sorts of rather persistent problems.

Other than that, if you do your experiments, let us all here know so we won't have to repeat them all. And be sure to include notes on any dimensional changes, and any development of looseness in the gun. And just remember, that sometimes, an accumulation of heavier than normal loads CAN develop fatigue in the metal, and fatigued metal generally lets go all at once, without giving you any real observable indication that it's coming. I'm sure the GP will take stronger than SAAMI loads, but I wouldn't go over what seems to be @ 20K psi. if it was me, which it isn't. That should give you all the power you really need, and much better followup shot times. That's a really good spot in the ballistics parameters, to be at. FWIW?

[shoot-n-lead]

There is no better .44 Special defensive load than a 200gr full wadcutter at 1000fps...as good as it gets. I load my own using the 208gr Lee...but look at what Buffalo Bore says about them.

You can do your own tests to see how they perform...devastating round.

Buffalo Bore .44 Special Anti-personnel ammo

[usbp379]

There is no better .44 Special defensive load than a 200gr full wadcutter at 1000fps...as good as it gets. I load my own using the 208gr Lee...but look at what Buffalo Bore says about them.

You can do your own tests to see how they perform...devastating round.

Buffalo Bore .44 Special Anti-personnel ammo

I don't see how this would be a better bullet than a modern offering from Barnes, Speer, etc. Sure it has a wide flat frontal surface area but at the end of the day it is still .429 in diameter. A good hollowpoint will expand to at least .50 or even better. And if the hollowpoint fails to expand due to loss of velocity or clothing barrier etc the bullet is still .429 and just as good as your full wadcutter.

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[usbp379]

Here is--in case someone wants to try these Buffalo Bore bullets without the ridiculous price--the bullet BB uses for thier load.

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/-44...personel-.html

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[shoot-n-lead]

I don't see how this would be a better bullet than a modern offering from Barnes, Speer, etc. Sure it has a wide flat frontal surface area but at the end of the day it is still .429 in diameter. A good hollowpoint will expand to at least .50 or even better. And if the hollowpoint fails to expand due to loss of velocity or clothing barrier etc the bullet is still .429 and just as good as your full wadcutter.

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I didn't expect that YOU would.

And, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I will stay with what I have seen work on flesh and blood...what I have seen on animals, leaves nothing for me to debate...This bullet will reach structure...organs or bone...from ANY angle, every time. You nor anyone else can say that about any hollow point typical defensive handgun bullet. For me, I want guaranteed penetration....

At any rate, you go with whatever you like.

BTW, next time you are watching a gel test on youtube...check that gel to see how many sternum and arm bones are in the gel.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The full wadcutter design cuts meat like a hole punch. Round nosed or mushrooming boolits tend to push meat out of the way as they travel thru.

Essentially it would produce a wound similar to getting driven thru with a piece of 7/16" steel rod until it hit something substantial then it would probably break that and continue on.

Not much would live thru that. But no much is going to live thru being shot by any of these boolits.

People don't seem to realize how devastating being shot with a large caliber round even at modest velocities would be. The effects of large caliber boolits at modest velocities was well documented by 1900. The Targets haven't changed that much in 100 years.

Randy

[DougGuy]

The full wadcutter design cuts meat like a hole punch. Round nosed or mushrooming boolits tend to push meat out of the way as they travel thru.

Essentially it would produce a wound similar to getting driven thru with a piece of 7/16" steel rod until it hit something substantial then it would probably break that and continue on.

Not much would live thru that. But no much is going to live thru being shot by any of these boolits.

People don't seem to realize how devastating being shot with a large caliber round even at modest velocities would be. The effects of large caliber boolits at modest velocities was well documented by 1900. The Targets haven't changed that much in 100 years.

Randy

Incorrect.

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And what part of Randy's accurate reply would you deem incorrect? Surely you have never killed a deer with one of the Lee RF boolits or you would already know how much more pronounced the wound channel from a WFN or a full wadcutter is over a K type LSWC or even a HP. It isn't JUST theory.

Edit: After having taken more deer with the 7 1/2" SBH than all my other arms combined, I have backed off to a new hunting boolit, which is basically a little soupcan driven to 1200fps in a medium framed Vaquero, one that I rechambered a 45 ACP cylinder to 45 Schofield so basically this is the 44 Special with a 1 added to the end of it making it a 45. Not a whole ton of difference in the 45 Schofield and the 44 Special, they are close enough for comparison..

Since both guns can be expected to push a 250gr boolit to 1200fps reliably and safely, I am retiring my SBH and looking to carry the 5 1/2" Vaquero and one of Veral's fine wide flat nosed offerings, all shoot well over H110, I have total confidence in either of these three boolits, but I am intending to hunt with the one on the left, Veral calls it the "OWC or Ogival Wad Cutter" and claims it to be stable when driven supersonic.



I suspect that anyone who would load the same mini-oilcan in the 44 Special would have a very effective hunting load when driven to 1200fps, and without a doubt a VERY effective defensive load but I wouldn't choose to push it to 1200fps for defense.

JUST for s_____ n grins I think I will load a few of these 250gr OWC boolits in 45 ACP cases, see if I can get them to feed in one of my 1911s, I have one that eats anything you can cycle through the magazine with it's long throated barrel. Would make an awesome bowling pin load!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Doug: Those WFN's are very effective even at 900 fps! Let alone 1200. 900 fps from these 3" barreled guns is easily achieved with Mid Range Loads and a guy might actually be able to hit something with them.

There is two sides to this story. There is the side of what any given boolit will do under controlled conditions, and typically this would be the best possible performance that is available from that those boolits at those speeds.

Then there is the real world.

If you can't hit the target,,, you can't make use of any performance no matter what it is.

I assure you that my 696 is never going to see a full house .44 Special Load simply because I have no use for one. The gun will do everything I need from it at 800 fps. And I have settled on one load that delivers that, so that is the load I shoot, and practice with.

I am more likely to hit a target with that load that I had practiced with, Than I would trying to hit something with a 1000-1100 fps load that I had never practiced with because it was so unpleasant to shoot, and only had in the gun because of something I might encounter in the field. If I missed the first shot, I damn sure would never hit anything with the follow up simply because the recoil is so different.

Once again, and I am not "Incorrect" in my assumption that large caliber boolits are very formidable even at lower velocities,,, I will take a hit at 750-800fps,,, before a miss at any velocity any day. I am more likely to make that shot with the lighter load than I am with the heavier one just because of all things stated above, and the fact that I am going to shoot more lighter loads in practice because they are easier to shoot and less costly to make etc. etc. etc.!!!

Getting hit by anything at any velocity is going to ruin your day. I doubt you'd know what the velocity was before it hit you, and I really doubt that you would care. The big boolits are just going to have more impact than say a .22, so You might say,,,

"Gee that wasn't a .22 I just got shot with, I might be in trouble here."

Randy