GP100 44 special strength .

[6bg6ga]

Just buy a 460 or 500 and be done with it.

[psweigle]

Buffalo bore ammo. Its a Ruger, it will eat them all day without an issue. There is no need to try to blow it apart and hurting anyone with anything else.

[Thumbcocker]

Thin forcing cone concerns me. Mine will get a diet of 250 Keiths over 8.0 of Power Pistol.

[kmrra]

Buy a 44 mag LOL just kidding , I dont think you will have any problems with the Ruger , for one they are over built in the first place , My Redhawk is probably the strongest 44 on the market, and second I dont think that Ruger would put out a product if it wasnt proven first , Or at least they use to not?, I have been looking at that gun and kinda waiting to see if they are going to make one in a 6 inch barrel.

[Forrest r]

You're comparing balloon head cases to balloon head cases here. Typo?
Not a typo. Try this. The nra tested the Keith loads using balloon headed cases and found the load was 20,000+psi. They also found that if you use modern cases AND THE BALLOON HEADED CASE DATA YOU WOULD GET 7,000psi MORE PRESSURE. Same Keith loads, 2 different cases.
Pearce included the 696 in his 25k psi data, but in a later article mentioned the thin forcing cone that might crack with continued use of these loads. While the Ruger GP100 44 spl might be stronger than the 696, but looking at the forcing cone you'll see it's a bit thin, too.

I'd tone the loads down a bit, and use them sparingly.

This is what's wrong with this ruger bs. You got 44mag data thrown in with "Well Keith did this" so I'll compare it to what pearce did. Add to that a extremely thin forcing cone.

Keith's loads. They are no where near 27,000psi. They are no where near pearce's 25,000psi.
[IMG][/IMG]

Ya confusing ain't it.
18.5gr of 2400/429421 bullet with balloon headed cases
17.0gr of 2400/429421 bullet in modern cases

A link to the nra tests.
http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/4...%20Special.pdf

The nra used 6 1/2" bbl's (target model 1950 & test pressure bbl) so all their velocities were from 6 1/2" bbl's.
Line 20 show the old "KEITH BALLOON HEAD CASE LOAD" 18 1/2gr of 2400/429421 bullet combo. It did 1233fps out of aa 6 1/2" bbl and 20,870psi.

Why the heck 27,000psi or pearce's 25,000psi keep coming up with what Keith did is beyond me.

The nra tests showed a 16.0gr load of 2400/429421 @ 1138fps & 18.860psi (line 19).
The nra tests show a 17.1/2gr load of 2400/431/244 @ 1163fps & 22,960psi
A link to pearce's article.
http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/4...%20Special.pdf

It confirms what the nra found with their 16.0gr of 2400 load/429421 bullet. In the category 2 section Namely over the category 1 loads/15.500psi range but under 22,000psi max category 2 and under 1200fps from 2 different firearms.
It took the category 3 loads to test the Keith modern case load (17gr of 2400) and the tests showed 2 different Keith swc bullets tested in 2 different firearms and the s&w 61/2" bbl'd model 24 barely made 1200fps with the 17.0gr of 2400/429421 bullet combo.
Just because the Pearce article says 25,000psi max for all loads listed doesn't mean those 17.0gr of 2400 loads were anywhere near 25,000psi.

At the end of the day you have Keith's loads
You have 7,000psi more from using balloon headed case data in modern solid based 44spl brass.
You have pearce saying loads are 25,000psi or LESS. I guess it never occurred to most people that read the pearce article that when it said XXXXX max or LESS. It could actually mean that the loads listed were actually LESS than the XXXXX #'s posted.

3 totally different things.

That Keith load of 17.0gr of 2400/429421 bullet combo is even close to 25,00psi.

Yup, I think I'll try that 27,000psi Keith load to get 1200fps+ out of my 3 " bbl'd gp100. Or should I try that pearce 25,000psi load to get 1200fps out of that 3" bbl???

Or how about I blew the gun up with that 17.0gr of 2400/429421 27,000psi keith load so I switched to that 17.0gr of 2400/429421 25,000psi pearce's load to get 1200fps from my 3" bbl'd gp100.

Reality, 1100fps is very doable in that 3" bbl'd gp100 with the 17.0gr of 2400/429421 keith load that pearce mirrored/re-tested.

[Petrol & Powder]

I would stay in the "Skeeter Load" territory.
250gr bullet in the 900-1000 fps range. Don't think you would ever have a problem with that load and it will get the job done.

The SAAMI specs for the 44 Special are ridiculously low. My guess, and this is just a guess, is that a GP-100 in 44 special can easily take a little more than the 15,500 psi limit that the specs top out at.

[usbp379]

I've been messing around with 240 and 255gr cast bullets in my 44 Special GP100 and don't think you're going to get where you want to be with the 3in barrel. Slower powder like 2400, so far at least, hasn't yielded much better velocities than what's obtained from Universal and Unique.

My results seem to indicate that a 250gr isn't going to go much faster than about 1,050 fps unless you completely ignore the work of experienced authors and handloaders. Even then you're well above the sedate SAAMI pressure spec for the 44 Special.

I've pretty much settled on a 255gr RN LHP loaded with something akin to what Skeeter would have likely used. For the 255gr Keith-style I'm loading 2400 but somewhat under what Elmer is known to have used. Both my loads are above currently published data but extraction is fine. Neither load is necessarily pleasant and isn't something you'll want to shoot all afternoon but either will likely work okay for pigs, deer, etc.

What we really need is a new SAAMI spec. A vetted +P standard that is agreed upon by manufacturers with proper and pressure tested load data in a variety of guns and at a variety of temps. While we don't likely need to get too carried away I can't imagine that 44 Special couldn't be at least safely loaded and tested to pressures found in 45ACP ammo.

Anyway, sorry for the SAAMI rant.


Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[usbp379]

I'm going to make a SWAG and predict that we'll see a 41 Mag and or 44 Mag GP100 within the next year or two. The current Special will give Ruger a good reference point to what the frame size will handle and how well it'll work in a mass production big bore standpoint. It will also help Ruger gauge the Magnum market place. Plus I believe a Magnum is the next logical evolution just as the 69 was for Smith.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[usbp379]

Thin forcing cone concerns me. Mine will get a diet of 250 Keiths over 8.0 of Power Pistol.

Indeed. There ain't much meat there where barrel pokes through frame.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Petrol & Powder]

usbp379 - I couldn't agree with you more about the need for a legitimate, vetted +P 44 Special standard.

The SAAMI specs for 44 Special are ridiculously low and we all know the history behind that standard. There is a real need for an accepted +P 44 Special load. The spread between 44 Special (15,500 psi) and 44 Mag (36K psi) is huge!

[mcdaniel.mac]

I'm going to make a SWAG and predict that we'll see a 41 Mag and or 44 Mag GP100 within the next year or two. The current Special will give Ruger a good reference point to what the frame size will handle and how well it'll work in a mass production big bore standpoint. It will also help Ruger gauge the Magnum market place. Plus I believe a Magnum is the next logical evolution just as the 69 was for Smith.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

I doubt we'll see a .44 Mag, but maybe a .41SPL run, or a .45LC.

[usbp379]

Speaking of 45 Colt; there are a number of sources for "Ruger Only" loads and this data has existed for a number of years. While it has probably happened occasionally the hot data doesn't seem to have caused a rash of exploded genuine historical Colt Peacemakers. Surely the concern that an enthusiastic reloader will blow up Grandpa's vintage Special is well founded but somewhat obsolete. How many vintage guns are still in service? Come on, Hornady (and Speer and Alliant, etc) and give us some "Ruger Only" 44 Special loads!

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[usbp379]

I doubt we'll see a .44 Mag, but maybe a .41SPL run, or a .45LC.

No chance of a 41 Special unless it gets a SAAMI rating.

What Ruger needs to do is dust off the blueprints for the LCR and beef things up accordingly. Who doesn't want a medium frame LCR in 44 Special? What about a 45 ACP that uses moon clips?

Would anyone want Keith-style loads in an LCR? I think not.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[mcdaniel.mac]

No chance of a 41 Special unless it gets a SAAMI rating.

What Ruger needs to do is dust off the blueprints for the LCR and beef things up accordingly. Who doesn't want a medium frame LCR in 44 Special? What about a 45 ACP that uses moon clips?

Would anyone want Keith-style loads in an LCR? I think not.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Maybe a moon-clipped 10mm...

[usbp379]

Maybe a moon-clipped 10mm...

Now that I could see.

The platform has already been tested in this caliber by Clements and others. No reason Ruger couldn't make such an animal.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[reddog81]

With the renewed popularity of the 44 in smaller framed guns a +P designation seems like a logical next step.

[usbp379]

With the renewed popularity of the 44 in smaller framed guns a +P designation seems like a logical next step.

The 38 Special, 38 Special +P and 357 Magnum all seem to coexist happily.

So now what? Email campaign to Ruger? Hornady?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[bcr]

Maybe a moon-clipped 10mm...

I would probably buy one of those.

[Lloyd Smale]

bet it has a thicker forcing cone then my 696 smith has and its ate ALOT of keith level loads.

Thin forcing cone concerns me. Mine will get a diet of 250 Keiths over 8.0 of Power Pistol.

[Lloyd Smale]

remember too that Elmer Keith developed those loads for the 44 spc in a colt single action. He didn't have a stouter built ruger or id bet those loads today would be even hotter. He developed them in the 44 spec because he messed up a couple 45 colts trying to push it and knew the 44 cylinder with its thicker wall would handle them.

Speaking of 45 Colt; there are a number of sources for "Ruger Only" loads and this data has existed for a number of years. While it has probably happened occasionally the hot data doesn't seem to have caused a rash of exploded genuine historical Colt Peacemakers. Surely the concern that an enthusiastic reloader will blow up Grandpa's vintage Special is well founded but somewhat obsolete. How many vintage guns are still in service? Come on, Hornady (and Speer and Alliant, etc) and give us some "Ruger Only" 44 Special loads!

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk