OE 2f in 40-65. Where to go from here?

[country gent]

I have used one of the bath tub stools for several years, That are pretty solid and are adjustable for height if desired. I think mine was $30.00 at menards. Makes a light weight adjustable seat with a nice sized seating area. The drawback is 4 legs never sit flat and solid like 3 legs will. I made a little shelf for the side of mine even to set ammo blow tubes OBIs and odds and ends on beside me. These stools are fairly inexpensive and can sometimes be found at garage sales also.

[Chill Wills]

Load development.
Try to shoot at the longest distance you will be shooting in a match.
If targets are at 300y to 800y - and you can load test at that distance on somewhat calm times of day; that is your best bet.

Use targets (to the extant you can) that are well defined - round and contrast well with the background. It is amazing how much better a good load will print doing the above. Then you know what you have.

Once you have tested in calm, good conditions, and have a good baseline load, you can test in wind and see how it holds up. Some don't, if they are marginally stable. Think bullet yaw. Look at the holes shot at distance. Or, think (too) heavy/long bullet for the twist. Or, think alloy. Harder is better for the high Bc bullets designs. Even a little slump on that nifty high Bc bullet nose is too much - creating (again) Yaw, out of balance and (now) a very low Bc.

[SgtDog0311]

Wayne, I have a turkey seat that serves me well. Even after the line volunteer ran over it at the Q last year with his four wheeler Steve's tie wire repair has held up for a year now. Even tilted a bit towards the sticks. No shelf though.

Michael, thanks. Facilities are always the issue aren't they. Did drive out to the valley to borrow a farmer's field but winds were about 30mph. Got just about everything in target and got to look at holes, at least at 300yds, so that was good. But here in my woods 150yds is my furthest target from the porch. I know you are right. Need to make more friends out in the valley and leave more room for finding better weather day. And make a bigger portable target. Man that land is flat. I fear this year the Q will be my proving ground. At least it's a good bullet for the twist and while not a high BC it has an excellent form factor (400gr BACo Creedmoor in a 16 twist).

[BRUCE MOULDS]

sgtdog,
your enquiring mind is to be commended.
iron sights are a learning curve in themselves.
as a starting point, try making the aiming mark 1/3 the diameter of the foresight ring.
for my eye, this is about a 3mm ring for a 4 moa aiming mark.
the aiming mark looks quite small, but it defies logic how the brain works.
from there you individual eye and brain might guide you.
the foresight is better too big than too small.
the rear aperture is your friend in aiming.
closed down as small as possible, it will increase depth of focus, thus allowing a clearer picture of both the front sight and the target.
however, even then, the eye cannot focus on both. so you need to focus on the front and blur the target a little.
you know when the rear aperture is too small, as it appears to have cobwebs in it and needs opening until they go away.
different lighting will dictate this.
your loads suggest good promise.
these guns have great barrel time compares to modern ones, and rely on absolute consistency of hold.
rolls off the tongue well, but harder to achieve.
a perfect consistent rest is very helpful. (read bench and rear bag as well)
transonic is from mach 1.2 down to mach 0.8. we have to live with it.
being a recipe for anything going wrong that can go wrong, and requiring bullets that are stable in this zone, just means that you have to get everything right. (like bullet alignment etc).
sometimes it pays to get a known good shooter to shoot you rifle and loads. there is no shame in this.
even then, you need to be sure that the results are repeatable for 10 shot groups. then you can say that bad shooting is you.
sometims a load that shoots well at 100 will have vert at longer ranges, often fixed by more powder/compression.
once you nail this, you will get great satisfaction.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Gunlaker]

John, if you find that after shooting 2 or 3 targets that your eye is getting fatigued then probably the front aperture is too small. You'll hsave to experiment, but I'd err on the side of a little too big rather than too small. Most of the time a 0.100" or 0.105" works best for me. I use my number drill set to measure the inside diameter.

When I fist started shooting I didn't think the Hadley was all it was cracked up to be. After a while I saw it's advantages, particularly in bright light. I start off on the smallest hole and increase until the size one click at a time until the image of the target brightens.

One thing I see a lot on the internet is that the eye will automatically center the apertures. This is true to a large extent, but during practice I have very often gone from shooting tens to shooting X's by just taking a second or so extra to ensure that the sights are exactly centered.

Chris.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

john,
chris gives good advice.
he has obviously done a lot of trialling to come to what he suggests.
just converting my metric sizes, reveals that I use bigger rings.
we are both correct, as it is how our eyes see it.
mine are not too good.
my smallest ring is used on 4 moa aiming marks and is 3 mm or 0.12", and biggest is 4.0 approx 0.16". (please check the calculation)
3.6mm or 0.14 seems ok for sil targets.
one thing that helps me to focus on the foresight is to use a relatively thick annulus.
distant thunder can make foresight inserts for many foresights on a custom basis.
what chris says about mentally checking that all circles are concentric can help, particularly the rear sight.
this will do nothing drastic, but will tighten things up somewhat.
one problem I forgot to mention previously is staying on aim too long.
fullbore shooters describe the problem as the image burning into the brain to such an extent that you can wander off true aim without realizing it and then fire the shot.
staying on aim for much more than 5 seconds will potentially cause flyers this way.
if you abort the shot for this reason, it pays to look at something green if available for a short time to relax the eye.
keep safe,
bruce.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

john, just rereading you posts, it looks like you are shooting off cross sticks from a sitting position.
if this is so, you are really making it hard for yourself to get definitive results.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Stevewhr]

Just studied your targets more John. You weren't shooting one target gangster style were you? You know holding the gun sideways. Might be time to relax and go with the best load to your mind. Last we talked you had a 1.6 MOA load. That'll do fine, look for the Holy Grail when you are relaxed and have nothing better to do. Just my .02. Looking forward to seeing you in Montana!

[Boz330]

As an old guy I like BIG apertures on both ends. I find it is easier to center things with lots of daylight around the target. I use the largest front aperture I have and have drilled out my Hadley cups, way oversize. With the smaller apertures in the rear it looks like there are cobwebs in them and some days all of them. I found that I probably wasted my money on the Hadley Cup since I only use the largest anyway no matter the light conditions. One o the joys of getting older. Beats having dirt thrown in your face though.

Bob

[SgtDog0311]

Bob, you got it. It all beats dirt thrown in your face.

Steve, I just snorted. I'll be the guy holding the old Ballard in one hand and the crotch of my baggy jeans in the other to keep them from falling down around my ankles. Had to have Steve Baldwin do the level for 'plumb' special, just for me.

Chris, thanks for weighing in since I called you out by name. And Bruce, thanks for the kind words and explanations. Hopefully my 'commendations' Will come in the form of improved scores.

In all, appreciate the input. Exactly what I was looking for regarding the aperture and inserts. Now I need to get myself some drill bits. Seriously, just checked; my Baldwins are marked. Seems I've been using a .090, on the notion corralling it tighter is better.

My rear sight is MVA. No Hadley. Thought I was getting by. Now I wonder. I don't get cobwebs from the rear aperture as is but I find myself climbing up and down the stock with my cheek weld trying for better light.

But the front, I can turn that one into a living breathing moving ameba. Not a good trick. Always thought it a function of my eye issues but from the shared observations sounds like I may be bringing it on myself, I suspect by hugging the target too tight.

Speaking of focus, aside from avoiding my tendency to "image burn", I go back and forth regarding what ought to be the last vector check. My inserts have a horizontal crosshair. No vertical. That centered in the rear Aperture competes for my attention with two other things. Obviously one is for the target to be centered within the front annulus. The other is the reveal of light around the outside of the front globe as seen in the rear aperture. Can't decide if that last one hinders or helps me center the horizontal crosshair in the rear aperture.

I shot three different targets, in turn putting focus on each. Too small a sample to make too much hay from, but one produced the horizontal target the other produced Steve's gangster target, and trying to evenly split focus produced a rounded group - but no tight core, though all three had the same overall group size.

Probably more than you ever want to read here and Steve's right it's time to retire to the loft and stuff cases.

Thanks again gentlemen!
Steve, got a Hadley I can borrow?

[BRUCE MOULDS]

john, several more thoughts.
it can be wise to test the Hadley, as they can change zero slightly as you change hole size.
this is not a problem from string to string, but can be a problem during a string.
shooting yesterday reminded me of greeblies in the eyes,
if one of those floats across centre just as you are about to fire, it pays to abort the shot!
keep safe,
bruce.

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks again Bruce. Don't need no greeblies. Doc already pronounce me barely fit to drive. Got diagnosed with advanced glaucoma this summer - only 8% of my right optic nerve is transmitting. Translates to 50% of my peripheral being gone. Left eye is a little better. Fortunately I can still get by but I see lots of things I shouldn't and don't see things I should.

[Gunlaker]

Yeah I definitely wouldn't mess with the Hadley setting once you've started a string.

Chris.

[SgtDog0311]

Just to close the loop on this (even though the topic of load development is always a lively one in my mind) I did find a load in time. It was a light load but worked well. My overall score at the Quigley was not so hot but mostly due to my inexperience in adjusting for wind. In other words I sometimes had excellent groups in the dirt to the off-side of the wind. I think we read the wind well, considering our experience level but me taking that info and putting it to good use was my downfall. I'm always too conservative and getting it right too late in the string for a good score. We had four of the six targets the first day and winds were 25-29 with 40mph gusts. I did get 15 hits out of the second day's 16 attempts and got a Quigley 8-pin which I was proud to get. Also did go with the a larger aperture (thanks Chris). I didn't try the Hadley but would have had I to had one before leaving for the Q. Steve lent me his Hadley but I was satisfied with the larger front aperture by then. I did have a little problem with leading that was easily dealt with in a single day's string of shooting. I'll be working on that this summer. Might try some alloy changes or size from .410 to .409 if I must. Shot the Creedmoor bullet only since I didn't have the Money bullet sorted out in time. But I was pleased to get the BP worked out in time since when I left last year (my first) I was thinking as I pulled out of Forsyth that next year I'm shooting Black! Appreciate all the help fellas!!

[country gent]

A satisfied match is the icing on the cake. Also I have seen so many upset over not placing its brought a new philosophy to me and also many others. Don't compete against the whole group ( watch and see the scores be amazed by the top shooters and do your best). I now compete against my self, as long as this score is better than the last I'm a winner. Takes a lot of pressure and match nerves away and allows me to concentrate more so on areas I need to. Sounds like you did very good. Reading wind is learned having the confidence to make the full correction is experience that comes with time. You have the first down now trust yourself with it.

[Gunlaker]

Yeah, you pretty much have to ignore what others are doing score-wise. Once you get to the match, all you can do is to shoot one shot at a time and try to make each shot break as well as you can, and do what you think best with the wind. Worrying about a previous shot, or thinking about what your total might be before you get there will really mess you up .

John it sounds like you are coming along quite quickly.

Chris.

[country gent]

I only worry about the shot in the gun not whats ahead and especially whats already gone. I cant call them back and reshoot them so they are one and gone. If one is bothering me and I have the time I may dry fire 1-3 rounds to get my head back. But those are done and gone. Whats ahead is there waiting but not important as The one in the gun is at the moment. Worrying about whats gone before or coming up does no good other than divide your concentration. Read the wind make the correction alighn the sights and break the best shot you can each time. Several things forgotten are remember to breathe and keep water intake up as these greatly affect vision. In dry heat not only the fouling dries out. On a hot sunny summers day water intake needs to be high to keep eyes and everything working.

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks for the kind words fellas. I started late in life but I'm trying hard and enjoying every bit of it. Your "one shot at a time" was starting to come home to me towards the end.

[Stevewhr]

Wish I'd of applied one shot at a time. Got focused on what I needed/wanted to do and forgot to concentrate on each shot. As such, day two was not stellar. Shot with John and he's a good shot. Next year my friend, next year.