Concerns with Titegroup

[gpidaho]

Yup, love my TiteGroup. You can make something fly out of about any caliber with it. Don't compress it in anything and be careful not to over charge. It can go from just right to OH **** in a hurry in a small case. Gp

[shoot-n-lead]

It can go from just right to OH **** in a hurry in a small case. Gp

Have you experienced this?

You sound as if you have...

[gpidaho]

Shoot-n-lead. Not to the point of doing any damage but when I first started using it in 9X19 The difference in 3.8gr and 4.2 was eye opening. I stay below 4gr with it now. Gp

[rda72927]

When Clay's disappeared several years ago, I went to Titegroup to load my Sporting Clay 12ga 1oz loads. Worked great..

[bobthenailer]

A+ on tight group been using it since it came out ! previously used BE, works good to excellent from 32 acp to 454 casull have used several 8 lb jugs and have 2 unopened 8 lbs jugs in powder box currently working out of a 3ed opened 8 lb jug.

For all autos except the 45 acp best accuracy was not with TG but with med fast powders.
for straight walled revolver cases TG is excellent from the 38 special to 454 casull for target to med loads

[taco650]

for target and cowboy loads in the 41-44-45 cases titegroup is the first powder I reach for.
it burns super clean and is consistent over the chrono-graph no matter which way it lies in the case.
I avoid it in the 9mm.

Why? I have used it with great success in 9mm.

[Soundguy]

titegroup is my go to 38/357 powder

[HeavyHev]

Why? I have used it with great success in 9mm.

Let him. More for us.

[Tackleberry41]

I have seen alot of warnings about TG in forums. I was looking for some load data other day for a 40. The threads were full 'oh my god your gonna blow that gun up' using TG. But the same people were warning about never use a 200gr in the 40. Odd as Hornady sells 200gr loads, and 200gr cast work fine in my gun...with titegroup. TG does have its limits, just have to work within them.

[fredj338]

I am an admitted TG hater. It is NOT like say HP38, not at all. The volume is very small per charge weight. While that is fine, it requires scrupulous attention when powder charging as you can double in even the tiny 9mm case & not catch it. The other issue is the high temp generated on firing. Shoot a rapid string on a 9mm & feel the bbl, very hot, hot enough on a 95deg day to melt the FO in a front sight, yes I have seen it. Many other powder offer sim performance & cost with 1.5x the volume per charge wt, so I won't use it or recommend it. You of course use what you like. I would wager though that in the last 15yrs, more handguns have been Kaboomed using TG than any other powder. Only takes one missed dbl charge.

[1johnlb]

I love it in my 45 and 9, but I only load high enough to cycle the action.
It scared me one day working up subsonic loads in a 7.5x55 swiss k31 with the lee230. My technique was probably the cause but I took the hogdon 308 win data and started 2 grs lower and worked up by 1gr. I shot 1 and it felt funny to much recoil and the case stuck, so I thought I may have double charged it, we'll next round did the same thing. This time I had to wait for the barrel to cool and had to tap back the straight pull. Well if memory serves me correctly it was only 1 gr over the 308 load, we'll that enough of that. There's much better powders for shootin lead in rifles, especially the k31.

[surfanarchist]

I like TG alot and use it in both .45 acp and .45 Colt. I keep my reloading station brightly lit and I concentrate on repetition of movement when loading on my RCBS Pro2000. If i ever have a hickup everything gets checked before I move on. I guess i just depend on my processes to be solid. Stay safe.

[tranders]

I am an admitted TG hater. It is NOT like say HP38, not at all. The volume is very small per charge weight. While that is fine, it requires scrupulous attention when powder charging as you can double in even the tiny 9mm case & not catch it. The other issue is the high temp generated on firing. Shoot a rapid string on a 9mm & feel the bbl, very hot, hot enough on a 95deg day to melt the FO in a front sight, yes I have seen it. Many other powder offer sim performance & cost with 1.5x the volume per charge wt, so I won't use it or recommend it. You of course use what you like. I would wager though that in the last 15yrs, more handguns have been Kaboomed using TG than any other powder. Only takes one missed dbl charge.

I appreciate your reply,but I have loaded 38 Special with TG,Bullseye,and HP-38 and don't notice much of a difference in case fill with any of them. I can't comment on the heat of burn. I rarely if ever shoot that fast.

[Soundguy]

I am an admitted TG hater. It is NOT like say HP38, not at all. The volume is very small per charge weight. While that is fine, it requires scrupulous attention when powder charging as you can double in even the tiny 9mm case & not catch it. The other issue is the high temp generated on firing. Shoot a rapid string on a 9mm & feel the bbl, very hot, hot enough on a 95deg day to melt the FO in a front sight, yes I have seen it. Many other powder offer sim performance & cost with 1.5x the volume per charge wt, so I won't use it or recommend it. You of course use what you like. I would wager though that in the last 15yrs, more handguns have been Kaboomed using TG than any other powder. Only takes one missed dbl charge.

That's the difference in a sloppy unsafe reloader and one who pays attention.

Look into those cases once in a while.

[fredj338]

I appreciate your reply,but I have loaded 38 Special with TG,Bullseye,and HP-38 and don't notice much of a difference in case fill with any of them. I can't comment on the heat of burn. I rarely if ever shoot that fast.

There is quite a diff in burn rate. HP38 has a higher loft than BE or TG. Put identical charge wts in a case & tell me what you see.

[fredj338]

That's the difference in a sloppy unsafe reloader and one who pays attention.

Look into those cases once in a while.

I reload a lot of handgun, all calibers, most on progressive equip. I probably have reloaded more in the last 40yrs than most, upwards of 300K rounds. YOu can NOT look into a 45acp case, much less 38sp, & tell me for sure the TG charge in there is a dbl or not with small charges. Yes I look in every case before seating a bullet. It's a lot easier to see the charge there is 1.5x more of it in the case.

[NoAngel]

This ain't directed ant anyone personally, here.

Some of us believe stupidity should be painful. Fast burning powders like bullseye and Titegroup are doing their part to make that a reality.

If you're dumb enough to let double charges happen, or if you are SO afraid it might happen, Might I suggest knitting or crocheting??? Although, a person THAT dumb probably should wear safety glasses when handling knitting needles.

[35remington]

I am not sure it is fair to call others that worry about double charges "SO afraid" and belittle their concerns. When loading on a progressive or semi progressive press it is not possible to look straight down into the case in most instances. Best possible even with a light is an angled look. If they feel uncomfortable with using a low bulk hard to see powder, they will use something else and they should not give a rip about those that try to portray a sensible concern as foolish.

With an angled look a 45 ACP or 40 case can hide a double charge, and the dark color of Titegroup makes its actual fill level hard to judge even if you are looking straight down at it in a small diameter but medium length 32 long case. A 38 Special with its comparatively long case easily hides a double charge of Titegroup. Depending upon viewing angle a triple charge may not be easy to see in .38.

Due to comparatively high bulk yet with good metering combined with a very light almost white color I find WST one of the easiest powders to see in the case when a double charge is dispensed. It is bulkier than any of the powders mentioned here as an alternative to Titegroup with the exception of Promo, but is much more reflective than Promo and thus easier to see.

[P Flados]

I reload a lot of handgun, all calibers, most on progressive equip. I probably have reloaded more in the last 40yrs than most, upwards of 300K rounds. YOu can NOT look into a 45acp case, much less 38sp, & tell me for sure the TG charge in there is a dbl or not with small charges. Yes I look in every case before seating a bullet. It's a lot easier to see the charge there is 1.5x more of it in the case.

To be complete & honest, there is a big difference between guys like me (loading block, 20 to 50 cases inspected at once), and someone cranking out rounds by the bucket with a progressive press. I can spot 2x charges with all of my loads (including pop gun 38s, 327s, 44s & 45 colts). I have confirmed this (I double charge one round now & then on purpose to give my brain a good image).

If I were using a progressive press, I would want the same confidence I have now. I do not know what it would take. My Promo (Red Dot equivalent) is one of the least dense of the fast burners. Not sure how it would meters in any specific progressive. If that did not work, a jug of a slower powder would be the next option I would consider.

Edit: 35rem posted as I was writing. His main point would appear to echo mine to a large extent. His WST suggestion sounds intersting. With a burn rate just slower than green dot it is not really fast but more medium-fast. However it looks like the amount needed for same velocity pop gun loads should be about the same as TiteGroup and list price is only about 12% more (using Powder Valley 8# cost as ref). Given what I now know about Titegroup (see my post #17 of this thread), I would bet that "position sensitivity" testing would show similar results. WST might be worth the difference for many. Both are ultimately Hodgdon products. If they were more completely open and honest (WST desciption is targeting the shotgun crowd only), many might be making more informed choices.

[RogerDat]

I can load .223 with Varget faster than .38's with Tightgroup because I am slipping each case out after charging and angling it for a look with the almost empty .38 special. The Varget comes up to the base of the neck or a little below. It would be hard to spot a double charge but I might (If I don't look at all I sure won't spot one) and I might spot a squib. While a hot load might have issues with a revolver there is a good chance the gun will hold, a squib followed by the double charge I would be doubtful of things staying in one piece.

Caution is another word for respecting that reloading is not knitting and since my kids and grandkids will use my loads I'm going to approach it with more awareness of what can go wrong than if I was making them booties or mittens.

On the question of TG grains sticking to PC there was a fairly extensive test and pictures and times and loads and the PC application process. Bottom line was the high nitro powders stick to the base of the bullet, TG was the worst offender but there was at least one other. The member examined those bases with stuck grains through a magnifying glass and reported divots from the powder embedding itself in the surface. Nothing was said about it actually impacting function or accuracy over the time period of the test. But it was also clearly not static cling and did represent some level of coating softening. Which given time might become breakdown.

Didn't matter over that few months storage but since some of us have ammo that is over a decade in age the safer bet would be to avoid storing the TG and PC bullets so that the powder is against the bullet base. Just turn it over should make a difference. Make no mistake I like TG, I think I have more Varget and maybe Unique and 4198 but those are mostly for calibers getting better than 20 grains per round. The titegroup is going out between 2 and 4 grain loads. And I darn sure don't have 5 and 10 times as much of those others.