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Thread: Concerns with Titegroup

  1. #61
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    You experienced extreme position sensitivity with tg? What cartridge?

    I have loaded 357 mag with regular primers when I was out, and even downhill shots seemed the same to my hand??
    He did not say "extreme position sensitivity". He said "my testing showed me it is position sensitive. I was expecting much better performance in this area and it was a great disappointment considering that it’s a major point that Hodgdon expounds on for TG."

    When I first started using TG, I also did testing and was also disappointed. My testing showed "typical position sensitivity", see post 17 of this thread for supporting data.

    I still use TG since it will meter great for the small charges needed for some of my least powerful loads (32s and 38s) and because I have over 7 lbs. However for the bulk of my ammo where I was using TG, I switched back to Promo when it became available again.

    If Hodgon had not advertized it as "position insensitive" I might never have started using it. Currently I would recommend either WST (see post 37 & 38 of this thread) or Titewad (see http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...a-Bulky-Powder) as "likely to be better" for very low power loads.
    Last edited by P Flados; 07-26-2018 at 11:28 PM.

  2. #62
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    I have been using TG for a good while now. I really like it in lite 38 specials and mid range 40's. But where it has really be a saving product is in 32ACP! I can meter it very well with a Uniflow and 2.1 grains of it behind anything from 71-78 grains has been very accurate. I have noticed that when you are around the top end of loads that small changes seem to really affect pressure and velocity over my chronograph. But, in the case of the 32ACP I am working the loads for a CZ70 which I think is the beefiest 32ACP around and once I hit my target velocity it just worked. The gun likes up around 975 fps with a cast bullet. Now, I do not know that I would shoot this load in a Kel-tec, for example...

    It does stick to the inside of my Uniflow badly, and does it in a short amount of time. I do think some of it is static, but some of the grains almost feel inbedded in the plastic. I use an air compressor to clean it out when I empty it. I have had other powders do the same thing, so not a new thing. Just don't store powder in the measure!

    Also, locally I can pick it up for $19 per pound, do you know how long this stuff lasts with small charges, I do love it!

    The only thing I can really say about it? It is a great powder, but one must pay attention when loading it! But, should not one always pay attention when loading anything? BTW, I am a single stage guy and have always been.
    Last edited by mattw; 07-27-2018 at 09:20 AM.

  3. #63
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    We all do our own testing so here is my little 2 cents. I reload 9mm, 45acp, 38/357. I like to tinker with different powders as many here do so I usually have many pistol powders on hand. For a while I shot a lot of TG in both 9 and 45 and I thought it was great but then I started testing other powders. I compared TG with HP38, Unique,TB, WST, WSF, HS6 and maybe one other. What I found was that while TG works OK I was getting better accuracy with slower powders.
    I thought my FNX45 was shooting fine groups with TG until I shot it with Unique. Definitely tighter groups.
    I though my 9s were shooting fine with TG and HP38 until I loaded some with stout load of HS6. More recoil but def tighter groups.

    I'm starting to be a big believer of using slower powders that fills most of the case. Those will burn more even, not be position sensitive and give you better velocity and accuracy at lower pressures. Thats why my 4lbs can of TG is going to be a backup and sit there for a while as its not going to be my primary powder. Its always nice to have extra powder that you know works in pretty much everything but I'll stick with my slower powders for now.

    Everything is a little bit of give and take. Those extra rounds you get out of TG will cost you in accuracy, inconsistent velocity, higher pressures and heat.

  4. #64
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    While I find that all powders are position sensitive in one way or another, I find that of all the powders I've tried in larger cases, Titegroup seems to be the least position sensitive of most of them. I wanted to like a different powder when coming up with a light target load for my 41 magnum but found that Titegroup gave the least deviation as compared to other "standard" powders like Unique and Bullseye. The only reason I am using 231 at the moment is that I got a good amount of it for less than $10/lb and I have a fair amount of it to burn.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargenv View Post
    While I find that all powders are position sensitive in one way or another, I find that of all the powders I've tried in larger cases, Titegroup seems to be the least position sensitive of most of them. I wanted to like a different powder when coming up with a light target load for my 41 magnum but found that Titegroup gave the least deviation as compared to other "standard" powders like Unique and Bullseye. The only reason I am using 231 at the moment is that I got a good amount of it for less than $10/lb and I have a fair amount of it to burn.
    Man I would love to swap my 4lbs of TG for 4lbs of 231 as I use that more but hazmat shipping would kill this deal.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by marek313 View Post

    Everything is a little bit of give and take. Those extra rounds you get out of TG will cost you in accuracy, inconsistent velocity, higher pressures and heat.
    I am not sure I agree with that blanket statement...

    I have probably 20 or so various pistol powders, in the little 32acp it has been the best so far. That being said, did not say that I load it for everything. My last 8 pounder of HS7 is about gone, so I am revisiting my favorites loaded with it and attempting to find a good replacement. In bigger rounds, I do not think TG's extra pressure and narrow loading window makes a lot of sense, but in tiny cases it meters well and shoots well. W231 and many of the others do not meter well in the 1.7 to 2.4 grain range and it is really dirty in small charges. I am not willing to fight that even though each charge is weighed. WSF is one of my goto powders for many pistols, especially hot 45ACP in a 625 pin gun with ports.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattw View Post
    I am not sure I agree with that blanket statement...

    I have probably 20 or so various pistol powders, in the little 32acp it has been the best so far. That being said, did not say that I load it for everything. My last 8 pounder of HS7 is about gone, so I am revisiting my favorites loaded with it and attempting to find a good replacement. In bigger rounds, I do not think TG's extra pressure and narrow loading window makes a lot of sense, but in tiny cases it meters well and shoots well. W231 and many of the others do not meter well in the 1.7 to 2.4 grain range and it is really dirty in small charges. I am not willing to fight that even though each charge is weighed. WSF is one of my goto powders for many pistols, especially hot 45ACP in a 625 pin gun with ports.
    That may have been over generalization on my part as I'm sure there are cases where TG works better then others but for what I'm loading 9/45/38/357 I prefer slower powders. I dont load 32acp or anything small like that so I dont have to worry about 1.7gr loads. My lowest load was 3.5gr of HP38 under 158gr RNFP when I was experimenting with those heavy bullets in 9mm.

    I use a lot of HP38/W231 because it meters so well on my Lee Auto-Drum but TG works fine too. As long as i dont have to meter Unique I'm happy but at the same time I find Unique very accurate in my 45acp so sometimes I battle with it.

    I did load 50 rounds of 9mm with WSF which I liked too I have to go back to that and retest again as i was rushing that day.

  8. #68
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    At the moment I'm using the 231 I have in heavy bullet minor ammo for USPSA.. 200 or 220 gr pill with 3.0 gr of 231 gives a nice soft push in my 1911. If I were shooting TG, I'd probably use something like 2.7 for the same load. Pressure is likely not ideal for 231 but with the heavier bullets it is certainly higher than if I were using 180's and I'd need 3.4-3.6 to make the same minor PF load..I don't mind a bit of dirt.. if I worried about that, I'd go for the much cleaner N310 or N320.

  9. #69
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    I don't remember the VV powder that I had at the time, but they had a 40 s&w load that almost blew up my gun. I was glad it was a FireStar, built like a tank and did not hurt it. The data was from one of the little fliers that just came out and I started at the bottom with 5. When I fired them, things felt bad, the mag fell out and it felt like I touched off a magnum. Split the brass, flat primer and all. So, pulled the other 4, checked weight and called VV. They informed me that the flier was misprinted and that I was almost 1.5 grains over max!!! Backed it down to what the tech on the phone told me and all was fine! It was the most clean burning powder I have ever shot in the 40. Old, but bad memory tells me maybe 3N37? Threw that flier away and bought a full data book at that point. I also shoot a bunch of VV in 6mm/284, again very clean and very consistent.

    I know, way off topic here!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargenv View Post
    While I find that all powders are position sensitive in one way or another, I find that of all the powders I've tried in larger cases, Titegroup seems to be the least position sensitive of most of them. I wanted to like a different powder when coming up with a light target load for my 41 magnum but found that Titegroup gave the least deviation as compared to other "standard" powders like Unique and Bullseye. The only reason I am using 231 at the moment is that I got a good amount of it for less than $10/lb and I have a fair amount of it to burn.
    I concur. I switched to tg from other bulkier powders and am very happy that the position issue wasn't an issue, but that there were huge savings, look at tg vs 4227....crazy differences!

  11. #71
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    Would be surprised if it was 3N37.. that's a slower powder akin to Herco.. I would imagine it was N310 or N320..Something that would spike pressure faster. 3N37 would require something on the order of 8.7 with a 155 or 6.7 with a 180..

  12. #72
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    i sure wish our powder was as cheap as see on , here ,british Columbia -one pound was 61$

  13. #73
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    Look on burnrate chart lots of powders above Titegroup so those powders are faster all powders can be dangerous use caution have fun shooting I load 357 38s 45 acp 45 acp+p 45 colt and 45 colt ruger only with Titegroup and lee dippers weighed on a scale safe and fast.Enjoy shooting.

  14. #74
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    I know this is an old thread..but I still question the people saying tg is position sensitive .. It's my go to handgun powder....since I've been reloading. I've never experienced position issues with it..ever I reload from 25acp thru 50 cal..and anything with tg data gets it..
    Bullseye... Now that's position sensitive.
    I'm trying to envision how to make tg act position sensitive?? Perhaps load up some 357 mag cases to light cast 38 specs..and use regular primers.. Be in Montana below zero for 7-8 hours..and be in a tree stand shooting straight down. That might give you a click bang..otherwise..after many thousands of rounds and pounds of tg used..ive not seen it. Again.. It's my go to powder for handgun..i load dozens of cartridges in tg. I know competition shooters that use bullseye..and aim up before each shot..so if this had been bullseye..id agree... And that's the main reason bullseye is relegated as my emergency backup to tg.

  15. #75
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    I recently bought a pound of Titegroup to try. I did not notice that it was position sensitive. What I did notice was how hot the barrel got while shooting my reloads of Titegroup. This is a photo snapped at the range showing how the barrel is coated in humidity at the end. All of this went away after the barrel cooled for a couple minutes. Kind of like my glasses when I open the oven, the heat makes all the humidity in the air into moisture.

    That doesn't happen with AA#5, Unique or W231. While accuracy in my 38 WCF was OK with Titegroup, it's better with bulkier powders.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_8528.jpg  

  16. #76
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    I've never known tightgroup to be in the lest bit position sensitive..and I shoot pounds of it. As for heat..its expected..its a gun..it burns powder..it gets hot.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    I've never known tightgroup to be in the lest bit position sensitive..and I shoot pounds of it. As for heat..its expected..its a gun..it burns powder..it gets hot.
    Well it is markedly different with the other powders I have tried in it. While yes I expect the gun to be warm after firing 50 rounds I do not expect it to be too hot to touch. Note that I have only tried three other powders in this revolver. Maybe some other powder would make it equally as hot. If it did I would not use that one either.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tall View Post
    Well it is markedly different with the other powders I have tried in it. While yes I expect the gun to be warm after firing 50 rounds I do not expect it to be too hot to touch. Note that I have only tried three other powders in this revolver. Maybe some other powder would make it equally as hot. If it did I would not use that one either.
    I'll take heat over dirtiness. Many powders are pretty dirty..bullseye for example.
    Slow powders can be hot..but in handguns..are inefficient with some of the powder just making flash. It's a tradeoff in many different aspects. Not every powder will be the best in every gun in every hand. Fortunately we have choices..just wish more were easier to get..still large bottlenecks for powder and primers.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    I'll take heat over dirtiness. Many powders are pretty dirty..bullseye for example.
    Slow powders can be hot..but in handguns..are inefficient with some of the powder just making flash. It's a tradeoff in many different aspects. Not every powder will be the best in every gun in every hand. Fortunately we have choices..just wish more were easier to get..still large bottlenecks for powder and primers.
    Agree with Bullseye being awfully dirty which is one of the reasons I don't normally use it. The AA#5 is fabulous stuff and very clean burning. It is much cooler than Titegroup. You ought to try it you would lose your fixation on Titegroup.

  20. #80
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    I was so lucky! I placed a really large powder order the minute O was elected potus. Back then the powder guy dropped it off at my house as he lived nearby. He accidentally had ordered 8 eight pounders of TG instead of 1 eight pounder. I felt bad for him since he said he would be stuck with it all for a long time. He discounted it and I took it all Just under 40,000 rounds later of 380, 9, and 38 no problems at all and plenty left. It's a fine 4gun powder (cowboy).
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check