Sharps paper-cutter 'fun'

[Ragnarok]

I've been trying to get a workable 'cartridge' put together for my IAB Sharps '1863 military carbine'.

I had been out a couple times with the Sharps and some prototypical paper ammunition with some modest success....but not yesterday! Had my first 'gun problem' yesterday....the IAB wouldn't fire! That had not been an issue before. This my first try with paper-cutter/nitrated paper cartridges and I had to dump the powder and push the bullet and remaining paper out of the chamber. Then I stripped the breech block and found a big machine-chip in the fire channel.

Ok...fire channel is now clean...should work now huh? Well..sort-of...I had hang-fires...the gun with my latest gen. cartridges shot really low(that's new!). I was doing better with my non-nitrated paper 'flush fit' ammo.

No real moral to the story...back to the drawing board. I do think I need real black powder and bigger bullets....

[country gent]

Several things to check watch for. Make sure the channel is clean and free of fouling. Oil or fouling will deaden slow the sparks travel thru it. You might try a different brand cap also. Some of the Subs are harder to ignite than BP also. Make sure airspace in your cartridges is at a minimum, even a very light amount of compression, You cant have much as the paper case will expand to much. You may have some weak caps or other issues. Its been along time since I worked with a paper cartridge sharps is there a clean out screw on the channel under the nipple? if this is in to far it will also restrict the spark and slow ignition.

[Ragnarok]

I'm guessing my machine-chip I found in the breech fire-channel may have been in the cleanout screw hole. I had removed the nipple and cleanout screw after the first couple times out with the carbine..and I did clean it all out and 'never-seize' the nipple and screw then. I had read online of others having 1863 IAB no-fire issues for the exact same problem(machining debris/metal chips in the fire channel).

I've decided 777 ain't the powder to use in a loose-powder Sharps....but then I thought it odd I had better luck(and accuracy) with the same 777 powder in a flush-fit cartridge(bottom sealed with tissue paper for the cap to fire through)...however once I went with a longer cartridge that sliced off the end...the 777 became harder to ignite! You would think the fire from the cap would light the powder charge easier firing right into the powder instead of having to burn through a layer of tissue!

I do need more musket caps. Mine are CCI 'six wing' caps that I probably bought in 2006 or 2007. They seem hot enough but they are old plus I'm on a limited supply.

I think my nitrated paper is actually doing ok. No paper left in the gun after a shot and no smoldering paper found on the ground either.

[17nut]

Many of the substitutes benefit from a small booster charge of BP.

[varsity07840]

I'm guessing my machine-chip I found in the breech fire-channel may have been in the cleanout screw hole. I had removed the nipple and cleanout screw after the first couple times out with the carbine..and I did clean it all out and 'never-seize' the nipple and screw then. I had read online of others having 1863 IAB no-fire issues for the exact same problem(machining debris/metal chips in the fire channel).

I've decided 777 ain't the powder to use in a loose-powder Sharps....but then I thought it odd I had better luck(and accuracy) with the same 777 powder in a flush-fit cartridge(bottom sealed with tissue paper for the cap to fire through)...however once I went with a longer cartridge that sliced off the end...the 777 became harder to ignite! You would think the fire from the cap would light the powder charge easier firing right into the powder instead of having to burn through a layer of tissue!

I do need more musket caps. Mine are CCI 'six wing' caps that I probably bought in 2006 or 2007. They seem hot enough but they are old plus I'm on a limited supply.

I think my nitrated paper is actually doing ok. No paper left in the gun after a shot and no smoldering paper found on the ground either.

The reason for better ignition with your capped end cartridges may be because the
777 is compressed
a bit. When the tail of a cartridge is sliced off and excess powder falls out, the remaining charge
may lossen up. Just a guess. I don't know what the ignition properties of 777 are compared to black powder. I use Goex or Swiss in all my guns. I use Swiss 2F in my Pedersoli
Sharps.

[Bent Ramrod]

I gave up on snipping the ends with the breechblock on my Pedersoli Berdan, and now form the cartridges so that I can press them fully into the chamber, flush with the end. Before closing the block, I run the point of a pencil into the center of the paper.

I am not surprised if I get a misfire the first shot. A little fine powder in the nipple and another cap will generally fire the charge. Then I usually get another 12 shots or so with no problems, then a misfire or three in the last dozen shots that a second cap takes care of. After 25, I'm usually ready to clean up and quit.

I use RWS, CCI and Navy Arms caps, which seem plenty powerful. There are two 90 degree angles that flame has to traverse, so it is pretty challenged, even compared to a caplock muzzle loader.

[curator]

Ragnarok: Be careful buying the newer CCI musket caps as they have changed to "Reenactor Caps" which are less powerful due to the large amount of the product bought by that group. My IAB Sharps will not fire reliably with reenactor caps, nor will several of my friends Sharps replicas. I use RWS musket caps for reliable ignition. I also use real black powder not Pyro Cr@p or 777 if I can avoid them. I did learn that to take a .54 loading rod and seat/compress loads with sub-powders after closing the breech block would make for more reliable ignition. This extra step probably moves the charge closer to the flash channel so that it ignited easier.

[Ragnarok]

Hmmm....Wano 2f(Graf&Sons) and CCI musket caps....all that I could find as far as percussion Sharps supplies go. I needed to journey to my machine shop in Okc....so I started calling gunstores and H&H gunrange had real BP and CCI musket caps!

Bought some newer/hotter No.10 Remington caps too(revolvers)...anyhow I opened the CCI 4 wing musket caps and placed a square of paper towel on top the Sharps muzzle and blasted a cap. These seem somewhat hotter than my old 6 wing CCI caps as it blasted a hole in the paper towel and showered down small chunks of paper towel! The six wing caps I've had would just knock a hole in the paper towel(no loose bits floating down)

The CCI musket caps don't say 'reenactor' on the can...however the plastic packaging label did say reenactor caps. Maybe CCI has improved their musket caps?

No Goex...no Swiss...no 3f Wano(sold out will get more)...no 'BlackMZ'...no RWS musket caps...they did have the usual Pyrodex..Blackhorn209 and 777 subs. I'll work-up a 'next-gen' flush fit cartridge with Wano 2f and see what happens

[TCLouis]

Need real black powder for sure.
I'm betting that you will find it much easier to ignite

[.22-10-45]

I found better accuracy with my Shilo percussion 1863 rifle if I made paper ctg. just long enough to fit flush with breech & not be cut. I used tissue paper glued over end. Started using 36" drop tube when pouring powder..ctg. packed very tight..paper would burst open if dropped. I even had a brainstorm to try and use those special center-fire primer firing nipples..but found I would have to unscrew top before I could open breech..thought by eliminating blow-back accuracy would be improved..and make lock clean-up easier.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
We use 3F Goex in our 1859's and never a problem with ignition. Used 2F for years but it fouls way to much.
Personally I would not load a sub bp into a Sharps. As you have discovered Sharps went well out of the way to invent the best hard to ignite cap rifle / carbine that we have ever used.
But 3F will fire when all else fails. It only needs the minutes of spark / percussion to make a fine ka-boom.
Mike in Peru

[Ragnarok]

I'm getting better at the paper cartridge thing. I manufactured some 'flush-fit' nitrated paper Graf&Sons 2F(Wano) and a few same load Pyrodex P a few days ago.

I fired a few of these early this morning...starting off with a 2F cartridge that had rolled across the bench and got up against a really oily gun rag and I figured it was contaminated. It was contaminated! First cap burned a hole in the nitrated tissue paper end cap but didn't light it off(muzzle down and took a look after a minute or so). Second cap fired it off with a hang-fire.

The rest worked well enough. I actually thought the Pyrodex P may have worked a bit better. The store I got the black powder from claims to have some 3F powder coming so Pyrodex P may become a thing of the past.

I need bigger bullets or a new appropriate size mold before I can progress any further as far as accuracy. These last cartridges I built from 'cherry-picked' bullets...as in I measured a bunch of bullets and used the biggest ones. I bought these bullets from a vendor knowing they were probably too small(Sharps ringtails). I would like to find a .552"-.555" bullet to try before I buy a pricy mold!