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Thread: Late season buck with a 30xcb bullet

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35 shooter View Post
    Sur-shot thanks. However, you may have misunderstood my bhn. The alloy was just ww but had been ht'd to 27bhn in a oven as per my first post.
    that's about what I figured your alloy was.
    I'm guessing 425ish for a full hour then into very cold water.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  2. #22
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    Close guess fiver.
    Actually my little oven fluctuates a bit, but i do use an oven thermometer hanging in it.

    I set it a 465* and as it comes on and off it will vary from 155* to 165*. Yes, i do heat for 1 hr., then dunk in cold tap water.
    Dunking in ice water would probably get more bhn, but it shoots so well where it's at i haven't tried for more.

    I was thinking of a 50/50 or # 2 alloy ht'd to a lesser bhn for enhanced expansion at longer ranges as the boolit slows down, but now i'm not so sure?
    This alloy and bhn worked well, but of course , this was at close range.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35 shooter View Post
    Lol, your talking my language now...i love the 35 bores.

    I've hunted with cast only for 3 years now and don't quite know what took me so long to come around to it.
    The previous 2 years were with a TC Encore in 35 whelen and i took 3 deer with it. Two were with a NOE 358009 clone and last season's deer was with a noe 360230 fp.
    All of those loads were running 2200 fps. and all shots were about 40 yds.
    Even at that close range, i ate right up to the hole on the whelen kills.

    The plan for this year was 1 deer with the .308, then try for another with the whelen, but time ran out on me.
    I don't have a thing against jacketed bullets, but i won't be going back to them...just no need to, plus i just plain enjoy shooting cast more.

    Plenty of accuracy and performance, plus my bbls. should long outlast me...what's not to like lol?

    Good luck with your cast hunting and shooting.
    Thanks 35.......I am hoping for a good year too. There is a move afoot here in BC Canada to ban ALL lead for hunting, sport shoots, birds and target. Some knot head in politics must feel that the one or two rounds fired at big game every year is going to have a dramatic affect on our ecosystems !!!! I often wonder who elects these idiots?

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35 shooter View Post
    Fiver nailed it i think. The bhn doesn't reflect the alloy makeup, which was just straight ww. Straight lino, or similar may well have penciled through with little to no damage.
    At the speed i was using, the ww alloy was still malleable enough to hold together, not fragment, and give a "bit" of expansion even though no major bones were hit.

    I pound tested a few with a 8 pound maul before trying hunting with them.
    They flattened some with no fragmenting, also the same results when fired into hard packed red clay dirt and gravel @ 105 yds.

    I've read a lot of horror stories about shooting cast fast at live game, so i made sure i had confidence in my "system" as much as possible, before taking a chance on just horribly wounding or "tearing up" a fine game animal.
    Thanks for the clarification. My next project is to get an old 35 Whelen shooting cast. Anything I can read on the subject has my attention and appreciation.
    I've cast piles of pure lead Muzzleloader slugs in years past, some Lyman #2 boolits for a 30 caliber and just have recently been toying with the different alloy configurations and learning how they react when hitting meat and bone. For the pb lee 405 rfn in the 4570 they water drop so hard that 10 water jugs at 20 yards barely contains one. It comes out of the water nearly ready to reload. The same allow with the Accurate 460-405gc destroys 4 water jugs and has picture perfect deformation when allowed to air cool instead of water dropping. Still so much I need to learn in this game. So far the 460-405gc has killed two deer effectively but not with massive exterior or internal damage, plenty enough to adequately do the job, though.

    From what I am gathering a WFN should stay within 2,200 fps or less, whereas a more streamlined boolit with a smaller meplat can be ramped up with the right alloy and still expand and kill effectively. Good information to know.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    CristopherO,

    From my limited experience with the 35's and up in cal. and everything i've read, those cal. just don't need much, if any, expansion.
    They're already putting a 3/8" to 1/2" hole in whatever it hits...add a flat point up front, and you deliver a lot of "shock" on impact just as it is.
    No or very little ruined meat either.

    At 2200 fps. and a wide flat point from my whelen results in no meat loss @ 27 bhn even on close 40 yd. shots.
    I wouldn't worry about 2400 fps. with it either too much.

    However, the 30xcb has a very small meplat and did expand a bit at @ 27 bhn evidently. That's what i meant when i said i wouldn't want a bigger meplat @ 2400, fps. on the end of that one.
    My whelen boolits are a totally different design and just don't expand, or very little at the same bhn.

    What i want test for now is what the small meplat is doing once it slows down to 1900, or 2000 fps...250 to 300 yds?
    I'll be doing that over the spring and summer in some kind of test medium.
    Those tests will tell me if i need to reduce bhn(most likely), or even change alloy(more likely).
    I think 50/50 or #2alloy ht'd would probably be perfect for what i want from this boolit provided accuracy is maintained.

  6. #26
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    that's why I mentioned the final BHN is misleading.
    the alloy's internal matrix will react differently at different velocity's and depending on what it hit's.
    the point at the tip also affects how much that happens.

    the 45-70 above made from 50-50 alloy at 1600 fps will punch a shoulder and the other shoulder no problem.
    run it up to 1800 fps and you'll see nearly the same results through the ribs.
    but you'll have some tore up meat on the shoulder shot.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  7. #27
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    runfiverun,

    Since you also have the xcb boolit mould and i'm quite sure have much more experience with different alloys than me....what speed would you estimate the nose on my alloy and bhn to stop expanding at on deer size game, if you had to guess?

    I guess another question would be what bhn would be the best compromise for my ww at short to longer ranges?

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    don't fall into the BHN trap.
    the alloy is still what it is when it gets there.
    the meplat is what forces the alloy back onto itself to disrupt the integrity of the nose shape.
    think about it in terms like that and what happens becomes clearer.

    your 2400+ fps would give you about 4" of drop at 200 yds and would be about as far as I would want to go with your combination.
    I'm guessing at the remaining velocity being in the 2200 fps area at that range.
    you need the speed.
    but I wouldn't hesitate to step the load out a bit and be confident in it working.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  9. #29
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    Thanks Fiver,

    That's very close to what i had estimated.
    I intend to have a lot of fun testing it out at longer ranges this summer, along with different alloys, catch some boolits and see what happens.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master taco650's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    the BHN being high doesn't indicate the alloy's make up.
    the onside/internal damage would indicate the boolit did indeed mushroom or upset at the nose section..
    this is very close in terminal performance to some of my high velocity jacketed bullets.
    Ditto. This looks just like the results I got this year on two whitetails with 30 call 150 gr HDY Interlock at ~2700fps from my '06. Both deer were DRT, one was about 80 yards and the second was ~120. While skinning out the shoulders on the second one you could hear the body cavity sucking air every time I moved the front leg.

    Congrats on doing it with cast!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    Thanks taco650,

    I was very impressed with the performance of the .308 and am already working with the NOE 188 Hunter, while i continue to work with the 30xcb boolit too.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check