Converting 93/1916 Mauser to 7.62x39 or 45acp

[trk]

I have a 93/1916 Mauser (now in 7.62 Nato) that I WILL convert to either 7.62x39 or .45acp.

I'd like to hear from anyone who's done it - what issues am I going to run into?

(Forgive me for not being a purist and keeping it in 7.62 and just loading down - not interested in discussing that.)

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have a friend who is really keen on this round and has loaded it in several strong bolt actions, using old target barrels. He uses cast and gets pretty impressive performance with them.

[Buckshot]

Above is a 7.62x39 I built on a FN produced 1894 Brazilian action. It's a small ring and basicly a 1893, except as you can see in photo 3 it has no thumbcut through the receiver wall.


My first attempt at adding an aftermarket bolt handle. It's not just quite right but it works so I left it alone. Cheap Williams peep sight. Engine turning the bolt really improves the appearance IMO.


The 'Kit' for this conversion came from GPC. It consisted of the barrel, a plastic follower and spring and a basicly shaped magazine blocker for $98. The barrel was fully chambered and I just screwed it on. On the breechface they'd stamped it in 1/16" tall numbers, "7.62x39". It breeched up so tight that the face of the left locking lug rubbed on the raised metal of this stamping. I stoned the face of the lug until it cleared.

The plastic follower and spring appeared as if they'd come out of a AK47 magazine. The spring was a long oval coil as you'd find in such a mag. Not the common flat folded leaf as Mauser used. Did they work? Yes they did but the shiney black plastic just wasn't right. I used a spare follower and cut the back end off to the correct length. I used a small scrap of steel which I drilled and taped 10-32 and zapped it on the underside of the follower. I mangled the top coil of the spring over and wrapped it around a screw in the hole and tightened it down. The magazine has a quick release floorplate so if you open it all the cartridges AND the spring and follower fall out . You have to watch that!

The magazine blocker is a simple piece of white nylon that is correctly tapered on the top to fit correctly into the bottom of the action, between the rails. The only problem is that there is nothing to retain it under recoil. It would slip forward and tie up the follower. I drilled and countersunk a hole through the rear of the magazine box and ran a wood screw through it into the nylon block. That took care of that!

The only other issue I had was with my more pleasing (to me) steel follower, and one you won't have if you stick with the plastic one. That is the steel one is designed to handle a fatter cartridge then the 7.62 RS (Rooski Shortski). Without modification, when you opened the bolt all your cartridges might just all come spewing out in a group. Not optimal.

The brass thing you see (photo 3) is a brass thing I soldered to the side of the steel curb, ridge, or rail or whatever you call the dealie on the follower that biases the cartridge cases to the right. No problem with spontaneous escape of your loaded hoard of ammo. I suppose you could use some type of epoxy also.

Now, there are three other places you might have a problem and these have to do with the ejector and the extractor and the size of the case. The claw on the extractor MIGHT not be long enough to get a grip on the smaller OD of the RS case rim. If no problem then great, on to the ejector. If there is a problem you can try different extractors. Possibly grind a bit off the little keeper lip riding in the radial slot around the head of the bolt, or MiG or TiG a bit of metal to the claw. Via a Dremel remove what you don't need.

Hopefully there wasn't a problem and now we're looking at the ejector. Two things. One is again because of the small case diameter. The slot through the left lug might not be deep enough to reliably catch enough of the rim to kick it out. Grab the Dremel again with the cutoff blade and very gently deepen the slot just a tad. Even though the head of the bolt is pretty solid here, due to the design of the ejector it will only go so deep anyway.

Okay so now it seems to be ejecting well but we find that sometimes the case hits the right side of the bridge and bounces back atop the next cartridge. Bummer, that.

You want the empty to eject sooner and the only thing you can do is to extend the ejector. The only way to do that is to weld a finger extension to the existing one (see photo 3). Well actually I suppose you could cut away a bit of the right wall of the bridge, but that seems so drastic. Beside, where ya gonna put the peep sight?

More Dremel time. After you've zapped on a bit of metal you can shape it into a finger type extention. You can zap a rather wide piece on as it would be easier to hold, has more mass for the heat of the zapper and can be ground down. So. In the left lug raceway you need to grind away a portion of the boltguide rib to allow the ejector finger to fold into it. You will also need to grind in a longer slot under the ejector box. None of this will be visible from the outside. The maximum length of the finger will be self evident once you get into it. Ditto lengthening of the slot. Make the finger longer then needed at first and then just trim it back as you see where you're going.

And there ya have it. Basicly just a bit of tinkering at the bench.

Now I would be less then honest if I was to say I was leaping for joy of the fine work that GPC had done on the barrel when I got it. The chamber and threads were great. The barrel contour looked like 2 guys did it working from either end. For some reason it didn't quite match in the middle. I was NOT happy. Also the lands appeared rough as a cob and I could just see them ripping jacketed or cast boolits to shreds. It was obviously cut rifled as you could see the drag marks in the grooves. Did have a nice crown, though

Anyone would have been justified in sending it back. I almost did but I'm not that mature. I just could not abide the time to send it back and then to wait for another. In my *** crappy Chinese mill-lathe I turned the worst of the mid-barrel missmatch down and then did the shoeshine thing with coarse then finer emory paper. I got it to match but sure wasn't happy about having to do it, believe you me. They all couldn't be like that.

I'm happy to report that this thing is one super fine shooting mo-sheen. Just about anything I've tried to shoot in it has been great. one of the best has been a caseload (28.0grs) of surp 4895 and the Lee C312-155-2R as below on the right:



The stock is a $65 Boyds and is very nice requiring not much more then a few passes with some fine sandpaper. Well, the barrel channel comes as a 1/2" wide deal and you have to finish that to match your barrel.

.................Buckshot

[KCSO]

What Buckshot said...

[Bret4207]

You can also go to www.rhinelandarms.com and use one of their kits for Mausers or Enfields. I'm thinking a #1 SMLE in 45 would be most cool.

[Bret4207]

You can also go to www.rhinelandarms.com and use one of their kits for Mausers or Enfields. I'm thinking a #1 SMLE in 45 would be most cool. There was an article in The Shotgun News by Reid Coffield I think on these. He was happy with the kit, FWIW. I didn't seen any offerings in 30 Rooskie.

[trk]

Thanks one and all for the responses - and all that detail!

I am going to to go ahead with the 7.62x39 in the Mauser and when I find a Mark 4 No 1 do that in 45acp from Rhinlander - been looking at that for some time.

You won't hear from me for a while - wife just had a stroke Friday. Great chances for amost complete recovery (we have a BIG BIG God), but it will take my attention away from toys for a while.

Again thanks & I'll pick up here in a month or 6 weeks.

[crazy mark]

TRK,
Hope the best for your wife and you. With todays medicines strokes are easier to recover from. The wife had one about 5 years ago and she has recovered with no signs of ever having one. Mark

[NVcurmudgeon]

trk, Your wife will be on our prayer list. I had a stroke over six years ago. Luckily I got PROMPT attention and the only residual effect was losing a small amount of peripheral vision on one side. A cowardly foreign doctor ratted me out to the DMV, and I had a terrible time getting a full driver's license back. It cost me using up my lifetime accumulation (very few) of political credits. If they put your wife on blood thiners, be sympathetic about her being cold all the time!

[trk]

Thanks all for your good wishes and prayers!

Recovery is going quickly - I notice measureable differences every 6 hours!

Speech, occupational and physical therapists are coming to the house two or three times a week (but won't be for long as well as she's doing!) and we have a wealth of good friends coming and going!

Last weekend was one of may all-time worst, this week one of my best ever!
Darlene went to the edge and is back! Discipline is part of her life - taught herself (as a kid) not to stutter! Same discipline being applied to everything the doctors and therapists say! Life is GOOD!

Recovery WILL be 99-100% - WE (that includes y'all) have a BIG God!

Thanks again!

[Buckshot]

Thanks all for your good wishes and prayers!

Recovery is going quickly - I notice measureable differences every 6 hours!

Speech, occupational and physical therapists are coming to the house two or three times a week (but won't be for long as well as she's doing!) and we have a wealth of good friends coming and going!

Last weekend was one of may all-time worst, this week one of my best ever!
Darlene went to the edge and is back! Discipline is part of her life - taught herself (as a kid) not to stutter! Same discipline being applied to everything the doctors and therapists say! Life is GOOD!

Recovery WILL be 99-100% - WE (that includes y'all) have a BIG God!

Thanks again!

...............Good news indeed!

............Buckshot

[flyguyeddy]

Bumping this super-old thread for some more info. I desire to do this very thing. It seems that numrich and rhineland arms kits are nowhere to be found (except the magwell adapter from Rhineland, which I'll probably use). Where would a person find a barrel? Am i going to have to "roll my own"?

[trk]

Thanks for bumping this up! The bbl that I got I purchased from Mr Quackenbush (the air rifle guy). I thought is was for the Mauser but it wasn't... Long story.

I had a gunsmith put it on a #4mk1 SMLE. BUT the threading wasn't right. SO, he made a new threaded sleeve (over the chamber - plenty of metal). He took so MANY YEARS at it (just got it back this summer) that he didn't charge me.

THEREFORE, use the concept - get a barrel, make a sleeve (1 to 1-1/2" long) and have it threaded to fit the action of your choice. (Or of course just put a threaded bbl on it).

Mine is in .45acp, so when the law changes I'll have a silencer built (or build it myself) and put it on it.

[Twmaster]

trk, can you by chance post a photo of that?

Thanks in advance.

[trk]

Handles better than expected! Good balance. Need to add front sight ramp.
Have done nothing other than trimmed off the stock with the band saw.

[Four Fingers of Death]

In Australia, a lot of Lee Enfields were converted to 7.62x39 by setting the original barrel back and rechambering. They seem to work well enough, cheap as well.

[Larry Gibson]

Rebarrel your M93/1916 to 7.62x39 or even mo better; the 35 Remington. I've experience with 7 Rhineland 45 ACP builds 5 of which I built. The SMLE conversion is the best because there are no locking lugs up front and the cartridge starts into the chamber practically before it leaves the magazine. Not so with Mausers as the 45 ACP round has to travel more than its length from magazine to chamber with the bolt face/extractor being the only thing holding it before it enters the chamber. If not held by the bolt face/extractor the cartridge bullet will jam on the rear of the barrel.

The M93/1916 are almost impossible to get 100% feed reliability with, especially with any bullet other than a RN and even then not 100%. The reason is the 93/1916 bolt face does not have the projection on the left side to hold the case rim as it slips up under the extractor. On feeding the rim slips out to the right and the bullet nose jams into the rear of the barrel or pops out of the action. The M98 Mauser can be made to have 100% reliable feeding even with short stubby SWCs if it is a model with the projection on the left side of the bolt face. You must also learn to work the bolt fast and not ease it forward. The extractors must also be shaped correctly. Once done they are a fun rifle for sure and you can go through a lot of 45 ACP ammo so better have a 6 cavity mould.

Like I said, best advise is to convert your M93/1916 to 7.62x39 or 35 Remington.

Here are a couple pics; my own Rhineland conversion and another I did in full military dress.

Larry Gibson

Attachment 187133Attachment 187134

[fatelk]

Interesting. I have an old Spanish Mauser that's unusable as is. It's 7x57 but the chamber is wallowed out and the bore is a sewer pipe. I also have the remains of a #1 Enfield, bad bore, seriously bad headspace, missing the magazine and forearm.

I'll have to remember this thread in the future. I have neither the time or money for projects like this right now, but I think both of these rifles are great candidates for conversion.

[Buckshot]

M94 FN made action converted to 35 Rem. That's a Ramline stock someone had on sale for $39 just in time for me to use it on this rifle.



LEFT: Bullet Saeco #356, 200gr GC RIGHT: light loads, info on the target. No, the DEWC doesn't feed well.

.................Buckshot