Max load for 105 gr SWC 9mm & W231

[Cloudpeak]

I'm working on loads for my CW9 with W231 and the Lee 105 gr SWC bullet. The 3.5 gr. loads of W231 with this bullet that is so accurate in my CZ Compact won't function in the Kahr. The CW9 has a very stout recoil spring. I get a lot of stovepipes, FTE & failures to pick up the next round as the slide isn't going back far enough. A load of 3.7 grains of W231 will function in this pistol but the brass is piled by my right foot.

I've looked for loading data on this bullet/powder combo and can't find the max load. I do have a max load of 5.5 grains of W231 with a 100 gr. Speer FMJ.

The most powder I've tried so far is 4.1 grains of W231. This functions great but I'm looking for a more accurate load.

Any comments on how high I can go. My gut feeling is, not too much over 5 grains. I'm sure I'm like most of you: the most accurate load is generally not the hottest and I'm trying to develop a "not hot" practice load.

Thanks, Cloudpeak

[HeavyMetal]

I have Ken Waters pet loads on file here at home. Interesting that he found SR-7625 to be the powder of choice with lighter bullets.

If you don't have a copy his top load was a 90 grain Hornady H.P., 5.0 grains SR-7625.

He used Alcan small pistol primers so you'll have to make another choice I've never seen any.

He listed this load as having "moderate" case expansion I would reduce by 5% and start from there.

Several other tidbits from this article: huge varation in case length's! Ken found by sorting case's by length and keeping case's in a .002 to .003 OAL ( case only) range he reduced group size by 25%! I think thats substantial and have always found he was correct!

I've also gone to great lengths to get case's long enough and trimmed square to reload for ot stuff but that's another story.

One more tidbit: case volume can vary ( 20%) in a huge way also! Once you get a load do not switch brass with out checking volume or doing a fresh work up!

[Down South]

I can’t find any data on your particular boolit especially in the 105 Gr. I did look at 100 Gr. Jacketed bullet data. I’d say you are about maxed out on powder charge. I found data listing 5.5 Gr. Of 231 under a 100 Gr jacketed bullet.(Same data you found) Have you weighed your 105 GR boolits? They may weigh a little over if you are using WW for alloy. I’d be leery of going with more than 5 Gr. and I’d be watching closely for signs of high pressure.

[Cloudpeak]

I have Ken Waters pet loads on file here at home. Interesting that he found SR-7625 to be the powder of choice with lighter bullets.

If you don't have a copy his top load was a 90 grain Hornady H.P., 5.0 grains SR-7625.

He used Alcan small pistol primers so you'll have to make another choice I've never seen any.

He listed this load as having "moderate" case expansion I would reduce by 5% and start from there.

Several other tidbits from this article: huge varation in case length's! Ken found by sorting case's by length and keeping case's in a .002 to .003 OAL ( case only) range he reduced group size by 25%! I think thats substantial and have always found he was correct!

I've also gone to great lengths to get case's long enough and trimmed square to reload for ot stuff but that's another story.

One more tidbit: case volume can vary ( 20%) in a huge way also! Once you get a load do not switch brass with out checking volume or doing a fresh work up!

Heavy,

Thanks for taking time to write.

I'm trying to keep my life really, really simple. I hope to live the rest of my life using only W231 and Clays when reloading for 9mm and .45 ACP.

As many pistol rounds as I seem to shoot (thousands), I don't see sorting cases, case trimming and measuring case volume in my future

Thanks, Cloudpeak

[Cloudpeak]

I’d be leery of going with more than 5 Gr. and I’d be watching closely for signs of high pressure.

I agree. Isn't there a recommendation to reduce jacketed bullet loads by 10%, or something? It's been so long since I've loaded jacketed bullets, I can't remember

I do have an accurate load using Lee's 124 gr. RN TL bullet so if I can't "dial in" a good grouping load with the 105, it's not that big of a deal. Maybe the Kahr will loosen up and I'll be able to run my favorite 3.5 gr W231 load through it

Thanks, Cloudpeak

[38 Super Auto]

I really like Clays in 45 ACP. I think another powder to consider is Titegroup. It's gives me good performance in 38/357 WCs and 45 ACP. I get tight groups and it's clean burning. It's a good midrange powder. I use it for performance, not for max or near max loads.

[Cloudpeak]

I really like Clays in 45 ACP. I think another powder to consider is Titegroup. It's gives me good performance in 38/357 WCs and 45 ACP. I get tight groups and it's clean burning. It's a good midrange powder. I use it for performance, not for max or near max loads.

I use mainly Clays in the 45.

I have read a lot of folks do like Titegroup. Sigh, maybe I'll have to look into it just for the heck of it. I never load towards max.

It goes against my "simple is better" mantra but, what the heck. Sometimes, you have to live life in the fast lane

Cloudpeak

[OldBearHair]

Working up a load for the Lee 105 gr. as we speak. Loaded five rounds 3.0 Bullseye and five rounds 3.5 gr. BE based on Hercules 192 manual calls for 5.0 gr. behind a 115 FMC bullet, 4" barrel. Bullets Hitek Polymer coated weigh in from 108 to 112 gr. My pistol SCCY CPX1 2"barrel. Shot 3.0 gr loads @45 feet. One fail to chamber. Group one bullet 2 inches high, four others lined up to the left 6". Good feel as for recoil. Shot 5 one failure to chamber of the 3.5 load. Grouped 4 inches above in 4 plus inch group. Recoil was very noticeable. Proud owner of a new Garrett 350 Metal Detector so picking up the brass was a breeze. The lighter 3.0 load showed a small shiny ring around the firing pin indent just enough to notice on three rounds. The 3.5 load showed the firing pin hole backing up reducing the dia. of the indent showing a shiny raised spot on the primer. The primer show some mild flattening. I was supprised by the groups that good at 45 feet. Much of the "once fired" brass that I have in 9mm showed severe primer flattening. Primer hole were Ok. Little amount of culling. It is easy for me being retired living on two acres with huge amounts of deer lease across my back fence. Load five test loads, go shoot then right back to the drawing board. These 105 gr Lee bullets will not chamber in the gun crimped in the groove. With the HiTek coating they mic. at .359 to .310. Tried sizing to .358. Still no=go. Made a tapered .357 sizer with a modified .357 reamer. Still no-go. Made a cone punch that when the handle of the press is locked down with a bump and the sizer die adjusted properly, striking it with a lead hammer, small ogive is formed two thirds back on the first band with 15 degree angle that allows the cartridge to headspace OK. Without this if the bullet does chamber , the lead is seated against the lands hard . I am working on how much to adjust the die to get .002 back from the lands. Please guys tell me what you think and if I am going wrong.
Next the plan is to test backwards 2.8 gr.BE 2.6 then 2.4 gr.BE for pressure, function, and groups. Then possibly other powders..

[OldBearHair]

I have two other similar posts on the first one listed here on page three # 45 and # 50

update:: After working on the problem of not chambering in some guns. It seems that the case length is what causes the problem when the bullet is seated in the crimp groove.Some Military brass on hand measures .740 to .743 in length and will chamber in my SCCY CPX1 9MM. After trimming to this length, my problem is solved. Now to get on with working up loads.

[FISH4BUGS]

Heavy,
I'm trying to keep my life really, really simple. I hope to live the rest of my life using only W231 and Clays when reloading for 9mm and .45 ACP.
As many pistol rounds as I seem to shoot (thousands), I don't see sorting cases, case trimming and measuring case volume in my future
Thanks, Cloudpeak

....and you are correct in keeping it simple. I use 231 for my pistol caliber loads in BOTH handguns and submachine guns. I use 4.2gr 231 with 9mm 115 gr H&G #331 and it functions just fine. 4.4 in the subguns for reliable feeding and function.
That WW231 is for 380, 9mm, 38, light 357 and 44's plus 45 acp. All cast lead bullets except carry ammo in the 9mm and 38.
I worked up my bullet and load combination just high enough to reliably function the guns. I swapped a lighter spring in the S&W 76 so I wouldn't beat it to death with heavier loads.
231 for standard velocity pistol loads, 296 for magnum loads, 748 for rifle loads. That's it.
Yup....keeping it simple.
The handguns shoot better than I ever will so 1" groups at 50 yards are not on MY radar.
And with the subguns who cares?

[marek313]

W231 is not that good at low target loads as it doesnt burn completely unless loaded mid to upper limits. I load my 9mm with Lee 125gr RN and 4.2gr of W231/HP38. Thats as light as I go and I would imagine you should be able to work up that load to 5gr with 105gr boolit and see how that affects accuracy. I also load 38Special with 5gr of W231 under the same 125gr boolit (sized to .3575 this time) and that works great but lower loads werent as accurate. Thats on a +P boarder but I'm shooting this out of my GP100 MC so its not an issue. Recoil feels lighter then shooting my 9s. I really like that load.
My guess is that you will end up with a load around 4.5gr in this case as most accurate but thats just a guess.
I dont like it in my FNX45 though as this gun also has super heavy recoil spring so I'm using HS6 for that. I did get new glock 15lb spring for it but I have to do more testing with that. So far I tried Win WSF, Win WST, Unique, W231, Titegroup and HS6 and I really like HS6. Works great in 357 mild loads too.

[JimP.]

in my 9mm Smith, i load this bullet sized .358 with 5.0 grs Red Dot, very accurate.....JimP.