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Thread: 35 Remington loads?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    I don't think anyone thought he wanted overloads. However exceeding the SAAMI limit is by definition an "overload".
    It is only an overload for the case and not the rifle action when considering the .35 Remington round in the 760.
    The .35 Rem brass is not very heavy in the side walls. Factory loads in my rifles tend to show a mild pressure ring about 1/4 to 1/2 way around the case head at the junction of the solid head and the case walls. The .35 Rem data for the Contender pistol runs about the same as rifle data to about 2 grains heavier with some powders. In my rifles, a 1952 Rem 760, a 1946 Rem 141, and a 1952 Marlin 336, an extra 2 grains of 3031 will show a little bit heavier pressure ring for 360 degrees of the case head.

    Loads using 4 grains of Accurate 2015 over maximum show a sharp pressure ring expansion. Please note that the Accurate Manual shows very low pressure (27,800 PSI) for this powder for the Speer 180 grn bullet. While the case is expanding a great deal more than a factory load the pressures are still low based on primer appearance. However such loads will shorten the life of the brass.
    Most people don't have pressure measuring equipment. Pressure measuring equipment does not know what is happening to the case. I know the case head pressure ring is not very exact or scientific. When there is no other method, looking at (and measuring the pressure ring) can be better than nothing for estimating what is happening to the brass.

    .35 Remington brass was readily available 20 years ago. About 15 years ago it started getting a little bit more difficult to find and by 10 years ago was very uncommon.
    If you want your now hard to come by brass to last you should look at the pressure ring at the junction of the case head and case walls. Keep the ridge about the same as factory ammo.
    If you have no ridge and your primers are backing out you might want to up the load a grain or 2 to maintain the shoulder position to prevent head separations.
    I would recommend you set your shoulder to the longest possible length that will still function in your rifle. If you decide to hunt with loads a few grains hotter than the manual use those loads only in cases of known good condition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    I didn't get the impression tazman was considering "overloads". Appeared to me he was just looking for a step up from the SAAMI MAP level of 33,500 psi Remington loads made for "weaker" actions. His M760 is a strong action given the other cartridges it is chambered for; '06, 270W, etc. Their pressure levels are above the standard 35 Rem's. Seems to me he was just want a similar step up as in the 45 Colt with "Ruger loads" vs "Colt SAA loads" considering his M760 is a much strong action. The post in the thread I listed gives loads with the 231 gr 35 XCB cast bullet at 2314 fps that have a measured 41,800 psi MAP. That is hardly excessive for the Remington M760 action or for the 35 Remington cases..

    Larry Gibson
    EDG

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    I tried loads somewhat hotter than factory loads in the .35 Rem but in my estimation the brass was not up to approaching the .358 Win in any way, shape or form.
    This is for 2 reasons - the brass as was mentioned. The other reason is the .358 Win is a truly modern high pressure round. In my unscoped BLR 81 (not really heavy) full loads with 250 grn bullets can make about 2300 fps. In that rifle they seem to produce more recoil than a full load with a 270 grain bullet in a heavy safari weight .375 H&H. The extra weight of the .375 makes it easier to shoot.
    That is not to say you cannot run hotter loads in the .35 Rem. Just keep an eye on the brass.


    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    Larry, you are exactly correct.
    I was hoping for performance in the neighborhood of the 358 Winchester from the 35 Remington cartridge. I question whether the brass could support such loads though.
    For most of my uses, the performance level of the 35 Remington would be enough. I may get a chance to hunt elk or moose in the next few years and that big boolit would be good for that if I can push it hard enough.
    EDG

  3. #23
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    The .35 Remington cartridge has been proved plenty sufficient for large game such as elk or moose since its very beginning. If you want (or feel the need for) something with a bit more velocity and energy, then by all means go for something with more "oomph". There is no need to exceed SAAMI pressures and velocities, and increased "oomph" is no substitute for effective shot placement.

    John M. Browning (center) took this elk in 1910 with a Remington Autoloading Rifle (later to be known as the Model 8) chambered for .35 Remington.
    Attachment 187841


  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    I guess plenty of people feel the .35 Rem is lacking since they don't buy them much anymore, there are few rifles still chambered for it and the brass and ammo are now hard to find.
    I like the round pretty much just the way it is. However if the primers back out and a lot of unburned powder is left in the bore then I raise the pressure enough to stop those problems.

    No round is only about killing animals. Some people want more even if they are shooting holes in paper. That is why the 35 Rem was used in metallic silhouette pistol shooting for a while. It offered a lot more power for knocking over the steel targets.

    No one ever claimed they wanted more power so they could be a lousier shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrmartin1964 View Post
    The .35 Remington cartridge has been proved plenty sufficient for large game such as elk or moose since its very beginning. If you want (or feel the need for) something with a bit more velocity and energy, then by all means go for something with more "oomph". There is no need to exceed SAAMI pressures and velocities, and increased "oomph" is no substitute for effective shot placement.

    John M. Browning (center) took this elk in 1910 with a Remington Autoloading Rifle (later to be known as the Model 8) chambered for .35 Remington.
    Attachment 187841
    EDG

  5. #25
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    do what you want but I doubt your going to find anyone here that will give you the nod for loading any round up over book pressures.
    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    Poygan------Whitetails in it's original low powered loadings and cast. If I can safely load it up to 358 Winchester power with jacketed in this rifle, I can hunt anything I want to with it.

  6. #26
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    I just got one. I'm just using Lyman's manual. I got brass from Grumpa on here. The stuff is unobtainable around here. His is made from 7.62 NATO brass once fired. It is beautiful stuff.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    do what you want but I doubt your going to find anyone here that will give you the nod for loading any round up over book pressures.

    I'll do it, you've done it and so have many others. If you have an action that can take the pressures there's no reason not to load "hotter" than "book Pressures" if that's what you want to do. If you're assuming "book pressures" to be SAAMI MAPs. How about the 45 Colt.....ever notice the "Ruger and Contender loads"? How about the 45-70.....the "1886 loads" have been around for many years not to mention "Ruger #1 and Mauser action loads"? Then there is the old 30-06......many manuals for years have had loads that exceed the SAAMI MAP. And how about the advent of +P pistol ammunition for modern actions that can handle the increased psi? All of those are examples of the "book pressure" for the standard cartridge being safely exceeded to enhance performance in actions that can handle the increased pressure.

    The "book pressure" (SAAMI MAP) for the 35 Remington is 33,500 psi (transducer). That is pretty darn low in deference to older actions like the recoil operated M8 Remington. That is a lower MAP than many pistol cartridges. The OPs M760 also is chambered in the 270 Winchester that has a "book psi" of 65,000 psi (transducer). I don't see any problem with recommending the loads I did which have an actual measured 41,500 psi for use in that M760 Remington action which is capable of handling cartridge such as the 270 Winchester or the Mauser actions I chamber the 35 Remington in. It's simply using the potential of the cartridge safely......the same as we do with many other cartridges. Lloyd, you wouldn't have your 44 Magnum had not Keith exceeded "book pressures" of the 44 Special.....might include the 357 Magnum also being the result of handloaders and factories exceeding "book pressures" of the 38 SPL.

    For those who are perfectly happy with their "book pressure" 35 Remington loads I have no disagreement with them....I say have at it. I would think as long as any different recommendation that is safe would be met with the same attitude......apparently I'm incorrect in that assumption.

    Larry Gibson
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 02-14-2017 at 12:36 PM.

  8. #28
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    Rifle/Handloader magazine had an article in the last couple of years on Remington Model 8 in 35 Rem. One user regularly shot brown bears in Alaska with it. What more do you want it to do? You want something heavier? Get a Remington Model 740 in 35 Whelen.

  9. #29
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    If the article was in Handloader then the shooter must have been handloading and I would suspect to higher pressure than factory loads.
    If you buy a lot of .35 Rem once fired brass you will find a lot of it has dimples all over the cases from the chambers having many unburned grains of powder inside when the round was chambered. That is because the pressure is so low. The primer also back out from the low pressure. I suspect it is a better round when reloaded with enough pressure to burn all the powder and prevent the primers from backing out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Duckiller View Post
    Rifle/Handloader magazine had an article in the last couple of years on Remington Model 8 in 35 Rem. One user regularly shot brown bears in Alaska with it. What more do you want it to do? You want something heavier? Get a Remington Model 740 in 35 Whelen.
    EDG

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Yodogsandman's Avatar
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    In the interest of making that Remington 760 into a 358 Win, why not just rent the reamer for the gunsmith? Much cheaper.

    http://4-dproducts.com/product/358-winchester/
    A deplorable that votes!

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    If the article was in Handloader then the shooter must have been handloading and I would suspect to higher pressure than factory loads.
    If you buy a lot of .35 Rem once fired brass you will find a lot of it has dimples all over the cases from the chambers having many unburned grains of powder inside when the round was chambered. That is because the pressure is so low. The primer also back out from the low pressure. I suspect it is a better round when reloaded with enough pressure to burn all the powder and prevent the primers from backing out.
    I've never experienced either issue.. with factory or my reloads.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master dougader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    tazman

    I'm using W-W 35 Remington brass I bought new back about 20 years ago when I rebarreled the M91 to 35 Remington. It wasn't too long after I "discovered" the RCBS 35-200-FN cast bullet and developed my hunting and practice load with it. The only difference between those two loads is the alloy used and the hunting bullet is slightly HP'd. The load is 37 gr of IMR4895. It ran 2162 fps at 41,100 psi the other day. I NS the cases and have quit tracking how many times fired because they just keep going on and on. The 42 gr load of LvR under the 231 gr 35 XCB bullet ran 2314 fps at 41,800 psi the other day. The additional 700 psi isn't having any additional affect on the cases. The brass Winchester used to make the 35 Remingtons is the same brass it uses for much higher pressure cartridges. There is nothing to be concerned about because the psi MAP of the loads I'm using, while having a higher MAP than SAAMI spec, are not really that high. Certainly not high enough to worry about.

    Larry Gibson
    Great information. Thanks for posting that.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Perhaps you do not buy much once fired brass.
    I have not had the problem with dimpled cases except with once fired Remington brass that came from factory ammo. This covers about 700 once fired cases.
    I have had backed out primers with about 30% of the once fired brass from RP, WW and FC headstamps. Just like most once fired factory 30-30 cases.

    My hand loads do not have that problem in any of my .35s - 3 rifles and a Contender.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    I've never experienced either issue.. with factory or my reloads.
    EDG

  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I just shoot standard book loads in my Model 8 although Pet Loads has some IMPROVED loads for bolt guns only. Never thought it was woth whooping up as standard load of 200 gr rn lead at 2000 fps has done in everything I ever shot at.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master dbosman's Avatar
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    Some .35 bolt faces and chambers are a bit over size and some .308 bases are a bit undersized. If you get lucky, stock up on that brand brass.

    Speaking of bolt faces, could a rifle smith open one up just enough for .308 rims? Or do I just not know enough?

  16. #36
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbosman View Post
    Some .35 bolt faces and chambers are a bit over size and some .308 bases are a bit undersized. If you get lucky, stock up on that brand brass.

    Speaking of bolt faces, could a rifle smith open one up just enough for .308 rims? Or do I just not know enough?
    Don't know about marlin lever guns or others but my model 600 from the factory has a .473 (308) bolt face and I've never had an issue with any brand 35 Rem brass not extracting . Most of the various 308 cases I have laying around seldom measure a true .473 anyways

    Tim
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  17. #37
    Boolit Bub Tactical Lever's Avatar
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    I'd like to hear more about +P loadings for the .35 Rem. As for myself, I will be reloading it for a 336. So I'm not into turning it into one of the .358 magnums, but the 30-30 level loads are pretty light, especially when considering the difference in bullet diameter and case size.

  18. #38
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    Grumpa makes .35 Remington brass from 7.62 NATO once fired brass. The price is reasonable and about the same as factory brass that was out of stock anyway. Hot loads shouldn't be a problem for this brass. I have a Sears branded Marlin 336. .35 Remington is unobtainable around here. It isn't an Ohio deer legal cartridge.

    He he is in the Vendor section. Easy to deal with. He makes them after you order them. He managed to make them and ship them out fairly quickly.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical Lever View Post
    I'd like to hear more about +P loadings for the .35 Rem. As for myself, I will be reloading it for a 336. So I'm not into turning it into one of the .358 magnums, but the 30-30 level loads are pretty light, especially when considering the difference in bullet diameter and case size.

    Check out the earlier mention thread or check out the thread on the NOE Forum on the 35 XCB cast bullet over LeveRevolution Powder in the 35 Remington.

    Larry Gibson

  20. #40
    Boolit Bub Tactical Lever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanishM1Garand View Post
    Grumpa makes .35 Remington brass from 7.62 NATO once fired brass. The price is reasonable and about the same as factory brass that was out of stock anyway. Hot loads shouldn't be a problem for this brass. I have a Sears branded Marlin 336. .35 Remington is unobtainable around here. It isn't an Ohio deer legal cartridge.

    He he is in the Vendor section. Easy to deal with. He makes them after you order them. He managed to make them and ship them out fairly quickly.
    Darn hard to find components/ammo here too. Had to buy up all the Remington loaded shells at one store as that was all I found. No brass, and not much bullet selection. Intend to start casting for it, but am not, yet.

    I don't intend to push too hard, so I believe the Rem brass will be OK.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check