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Thread: Smokeless powder in MagTech brass shotgun shells?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Smokeless powder in MagTech brass shotgun shells?

    Anybody know if this is an OK thing to do?

    The box does not say "Don't do it", only says don't mix black & smokeless - of course.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by dlbarr View Post
    Anybody know if this is an OK thing to do?

    The box does not say "Don't do it", only says don't mix black & smokeless - of course.
    12 gauge Brass Shotshell.pdf
    I also have an old Alcan manual,but that file exceeds forum limits.PM with e-mail if your interested.
    "The remedy for evil men is not the abrogation of the rights of law abiding citizens. The remedy for evil men is the gallows." Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks BB. PM sent.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Good luck, there are a few of us doing it. But essentially breaks the shotgun rule of "never substitute, change a recipe" and there is very very little good load data in smokeless.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    Never having used Mag Tech brassies, I may be speaking out of turn here but years ago, I loaded a bunch of brass Rem-Umc shells from the Army that were used as guard loads and originally loaded with 00 Buck.

    I used a Large Pistol primer, standard load of Red Dot, 1 1/8 ounce of shot and a .125" card wad and a 1/2" felt wad (11 gauge) with an overshot wad glued in by sodium silicate. They worked great in my 12 gauge double and I got really strange looks when I slid a pair into the 12 gauge on the dove field. Finally ran out of 11 gauge wads and traded them to somebody. Don't see any reason not to load smokeless./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  6. #6
    Considering that I have found absolutely no load data for brass shotshells, I wanted to share with you guys what I found regarding brass shotshells in the 16 gauge. As always, if you decide to do this, be safe. This is NOT a published load and may not work correctly in your firearm.


    We started with 12.5 grains of Alliant Promo which sounded VERY mild. We tried 13.0 grains, then we worked up to 14.0 grains which seemed to be a fairly decent load, but then 14.5 grains patterned better. It later proved to be a good squirrel load. The loads use 1 oz. of #7.5 lead shot.


    Enough wad pressure is essential to the function of these shotshells. I ordinarily use a hardwood dowel and a few good taps with a hammer to seat the nitro card hard against the powder, then use the same technique to compress the fiber cushion wads against the nitro card.


    Alliant Promo can be substituted for Alliant Red Dot by weight, but the density of the powder is different. Therefore, the same weight charge will not be dispensed by the same size dipper/powder bushing.


    The CBC brass hulls (by Magtech) use Large Pistol Primers. That's extremely handy when you don't want to have to stock an extra set of primers for your shotguns
    Components used in one shotshell, in order:

    1. CBC 16 Gauge Hull
    2. Federal Large Pistol Primer
    3. 14.5 Grains of Alliant Promo
    4. .125 Maxi Nitro Over-Powder Card
    5. .500 Fiber Cushion Wad (2)
    6. .030 Overshot Card


    Then, use a drop or two of Duco Cement to seal the overshot card to ensure it doesn't fall out while jostling around in a pocket, etc.


    Might I add, I don't know I'll ever start using plastic shot-cups in my reloads. The paper and fiber wads decompose and don't leave a mess in the woods, but I've found plastic wads from years gone by... they don't biodegrade.


    I ordered my brass hulls at MidwayUSA and my fiber wads and cards from Ballistic Products, Inc. I'm not affiliated with either company and don't care where you get your stuff.


    Below is a video I published on YouTube demonstrating how I reload brass 16 gauge shotshells.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-qrquIYh3U

    Two lessons I have learned since the video: Don't use Elmer's glue on 16 gauge shells. Worked fine on .410's, but pulls away from the sides of the 16 gauge hull. Don't ask me why. Secondly, don't use lubricated fiber wads (dry ones are fine). It soaks through the nitro card and the powder and then you get bloopers and hangfires.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    That's a good video Slade. Thanks.

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
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    I've used 25gn of Universal under 9x 000 buck with a magnum rifle primer in 12ga magtech brass. Any less in powder or using a pistol primer I would get bloopers. They take 10gauge wads easy so in my mind it should be fairly safe to use mild target 10 gauge data. Only my opinion and I haven't tested the theory.
    Last edited by Kitika; 02-03-2017 at 09:36 AM.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Can you use the data for plastic to load the brass shells?
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  10. #10
    Boolit Master



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    Most likely just end up with bloopers,the brass hulls don't have an internal taper (my old Alcan anyway) or base wad.Paper hull's may be closer,but still they use a base wad.I found ONE receipe calling for Red Dot in my old Alcan brochure and thats what i'm using.
    Just not willing to MESS with shotgun loads much more than I already have.
    Quote Originally Posted by trapper9260 View Post
    Can you use the data for plastic to load the brass shells?
    "The remedy for evil men is not the abrogation of the rights of law abiding citizens. The remedy for evil men is the gallows." Thomas Jefferson

  11. #11
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I too found reference to Red Dot and have some loaded, but not yet fired or tested.

  12. #12
    I'm positive the 16 gauge can handle more than the 14.5 grain load of Alliant Promo that I'm loading. It is such a mild load. But, I'm afraid to play with it much more because I don't have a pressure trace unit. And, it's killing squirrels. So...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you for letting me know about Red Dot.that is not a problem.I have the shotgun book of lyman that was the first one out. I think I could make it all work out if I go that way. Thank you
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  14. #14
    Boolit Master georgewxxx's Avatar
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    If you really want to know how to load Magtec brass shells, either find two 2010 Handloader magazines, #266 & 267, or buy a booklet sold by Ballistic Products Inc., authored by Rober VanDenburg the same person that wrote articles in the Handloader. They have plenty of recipes for smokeless powder. He'll tell you why new South American CBC(Magtec) & RMC(Rocky Mountain Cartridge) brass shell's being sold now aren't all the same, plus how the old brass shells are also somewhat different, depending on manufacture. Kind of like the old Alcan shells, some were primed with shotshell primers and some with large pistol primers, like the older Remington and Winchester shells.

    Years ago I loaded 12 Ga. Remington & Winchester brass shells using 10 Ga. paper wads. 16 Ga. using 12 Ga. paper wads. Some 10 Ga. brass could be loaded with 10 Ga. components. Don't recall loading 20Ga. , But we may have.
    N.R.A. Life Member

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by georgewxxx View Post
    If you really want to know how to load Magtec brass shells, either find two 2010 Handloader magazines, #266 & 267, or buy a booklet sold by Ballistic Products Inc., authored by Rober VanDenburg the same person that wrote articles in the Handloader. They have plenty of recipes for smokeless powder. He'll tell you why new South American CBC(Magtec) & RMC(Rocky Mountain Cartridge) brass shell's being sold now aren't all the same, plus how the old brass shells are also somewhat different, depending on manufacture. Kind of like the old Alcan shells, some were primed with shotshell primers and some with large pistol primers, like the older Remington and Winchester shells.

    Years ago I loaded 12 Ga. Remington & Winchester brass shells using 10 Ga. paper wads. 16 Ga. using 12 Ga. paper wads. Some 10 Ga. brass could be loaded with 10 Ga. components. Don't recall loading 20Ga. , But we may have.

    Handloader nos. 265 and 269 are as close as anybody has for sale on www.bookfinder.com . But it is a useful source for anybody who wants other editions, and maybe those in time.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master georgewxxx's Avatar
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    I would say at $14 Ballistic Products manual would your best bet.
    http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Rel...info/00MBRASS/
    N.R.A. Life Member

  17. #17
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I would say it is a waste of time and money.

    Read a little deeper.

    " These loads feature all black powder and black powder substitute propellants (e.g., Triple Se7en, Pyrodex, etc.). There are no smokeless loads at this time."

    As such this is no help at all for anyone wanting to use smokeless powder in magtech brass.


    ps Sorry did not mean to come across sounding so harsh.

    IMO the reason brass hulls are not used more often is that they force one to either throw the entire shotgun reloading rule book out the window. Or simply regret buying them and stick them in a drawer and not use them.

    As far as I can see a shotgunners Rule # 1 is never ever substitute components and only use published data.

    To use magtech brass and smokeless you pretty much have to ignore that rule.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    redot would be good. big problem with all brass is the heat will split the case.
    some years back Remington had a run of "ducks" that was in a tin box . they were all brass berdin primed with what looks like a BMG size primer. I bought a case because 'well because' I shot about 1/2 of one of the tins only one didn't burn through
    I didn't see expansion just the brass burned a line from base about 1/2 way up. the brass was VERY thin and the load was hot,full power. don't know the powder but it wasn't red or green as recoil was like a mag load.
    there is a card in the tin that has warning do not shoot in old guns . I can see why after about 10

  19. #19
    I have found a better load for the brass 16 gauge shells. 20 grains of Trail Boss (DO NOT COMPRESS THIS POWDER, just gently seat the wads on top of the powder). 23 blows the pattern into a donut. Otherwise, use the same load data I posted prior. Again, don't trust this load but it worked fine for me. I got pressure tested load data from somewhere that showed me it was safe.

  20. #20
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgewxxx View Post
    If you really want to know how to load Magtec brass shells, either find two 2010 Handloader magazines, #266 & 267, or buy a booklet sold by Ballistic Products Inc., authored by Rober VanDenburg the same person that wrote articles in the Handloader. They have plenty of recipes for smokeless powder. He'll tell you why new South American CBC(Magtec) & RMC(Rocky Mountain Cartridge) brass shell's being sold now aren't all the same, plus how the old brass shells are also somewhat different, depending on manufacture. Kind of like the old Alcan shells, some were primed with shotshell primers and some with large pistol primers, like the older Remington and Winchester shells.

    Years ago I loaded 12 Ga. Remington & Winchester brass shells using 10 Ga. paper wads. 16 Ga. using 12 Ga. paper wads. Some 10 Ga. brass could be loaded with 10 Ga. components. Don't recall loading 20Ga. , But we may have.
    Yes, I really want to know how to load smokeless into 16 gauge Magtec brass shells but the two Handloader magazines do not deal with 16 gauge brass shells at all. The magazines list a number of 12 gauge black powder loads and two 12 gauge smokeless loads both using 11/8 ounce lead and 18 grains of red dot. Poster #6 was describing 16 gauge smokeless loads.

    Thank you Slade for your two 16 gauge smokeless loads for Magtec brass shells. I will be playing with both loads in my guns this spring/summer.
    Last edited by GunStuff; 03-26-2017 at 04:32 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check