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Thread: annealing for reloading

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnostic View Post
    I don't bother annealing brass, because it's the primer pocket that fails first.
    Annealing isn't just about case failure. It's about consistent neck tension as well. Which plays heavily in accuracy.

  2. #22
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    Annealing offers several benefits to the Hand Loader, more consistant neck tension, less spring back both in fired cases and when sizing, easier cutting when trimming chamfering and or neck turning, longer life. the shoulder areas softening makes full length sizing easier and more consitant also due to the lessoned spring back. On cases that are neck sized or partial full length sized this also makes for more consistant fire forming and shoulder locations.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnostic View Post
    I don't bother annealing brass, because it's the primer pocket that fails first.
    wow !

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnostic View Post
    I don't bother annealing brass, because it's the primer pocket that fails first.
    I'll second you must be loading really hot for the primer pockets to fail first
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  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy Gunners Mate's Avatar
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    Only way to go for accurate case annealing, I have the Giraud works great
    https://www.ampannealing.com/
    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...r-from-giraud/

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunners Mate View Post
    Only way to go for accurate case annealing, I have the Giraud works great
    https://www.ampannealing.com/
    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...r-from-giraud/
    I would hope that works great, for that price!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunners Mate View Post
    Only way to go for accurate case annealing, I have the Giraud works great
    https://www.ampannealing.com/
    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...r-from-giraud/
    That is not the ONLY way. If it was then all the other mechanical methods would not be used. And since some companies that produce the brass cartridges use flame annealing it proves it's merit. Induction annealing is the next step. But until costs come down there won't be many adopters. People don't want to spend the money on a cheaper vertical annealer or a more expensive horizontal table annealer let alone an induction machine.

  8. #28
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    On the case manufacturing set ups I think annealing may be done several times in the process from cupping to drawing necking and final sizing. For ease of control at the speeds these are done I believe the induction is used. Flame annealing in the process would burn the lube off and be harder to set and maintain. Induction could be built into the die and set allowing for the progressive die to run continuously and almost unattended. These progressive dies use hardened tooling and or carbide so the temps annealing brass would have little affect on it.

  9. #29
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    I've been thinking of annealing my 300 blackout for better neck tension. Since the brass is converted from 5.56 the necks are from the area below the annealed part of the parent case. Using a flame seemed a bit twitchy but I really like the idea of the salt bath annealing. Enough that I just ordered the stuff to try it.

    Last edited by Boolit_Head; 09-07-2017 at 04:57 PM.
    On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.

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  10. #30
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    If I push my BO past 2200 the PP gets loose. I anneal converted at least once just to make converting it easier - the body hasn't been annealed. again for x39, only for best accuracy.
    Whatever!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master flashhole's Avatar
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    No way I would expose my cases to a corrosive solution like salt. Good on you if you are having success.
    ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 Pat Lengyel (my wife) in a discussion about Liberals.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Annealing offers several benefits to the Hand Loader, more consistant neck tension, less spring back both in fired cases and when sizing, easier cutting when trimming chamfering and or neck turning, longer life. the shoulder areas softening makes full length sizing easier and more consitant also due to the lessoned spring back. On cases that are neck sized or partial full length sized this also makes for more consistant fire forming and shoulder locations.
    Maybe it's just me, but when I trim softer brass I get bigger wire edges -- so chamfering is more work -- and it just seems to me the cuts are a bit less precise. Or maybe <insert complaint about tools>, whatever.

    +1 on everything else, though.

  13. #33
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    All my cutters for my trimmers were sharpened by one of the cutter grinders I worked with. they are ground for brass and are at the proper relief angles. I always run on the faster side in the drill press. These cutters were sharpened on a cnc cutter grinder and very fine wheels on the finish grinds. These steps help a lot also. A carbide cutter sounds good and may be a small improvement but by hand or tools available to the reloader you don't have the rpms to take advantage of it. I have a Gracey trimmer that the cutter head runs straight off the motor shaft at 3,000 rpms it does trim chamfer and deburr in one pass and works off the shoulder of the case. The cutters in it are high speed steel possibly with cobalt but not carbide. Ive trimmed many thousands of rounds of .308, many thousand 30-06, same with .223, and bunches of 300 win mag 243 and 22-250 on these cutters and have yet to have to sharpen them from the cutter grinders touch up.

  14. #34
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    The harder a copper alloy is the cleaner it machines. When annealed it is gummy to cut and tends to stick to the cutters at high speed.
    I always form cases, cut off and then trim before annealing.

    Quote Originally Posted by gunwonk View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but when I trim softer brass I get bigger wire edges -- so chamfering is more work -- and it just seems to me the cuts are a bit less precise. Or maybe <insert complaint about tools>, whatever.

    +1 on everything else, though.
    EDG

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norske View Post
    Hold the case near the middle, hold the neck/shoulder to a candle flame until it's uncomfortable, then drop into water. The candle is hot enough, but not too hot for the brass.
    That works very well, I anneal my cases after 3-5 loadings. The method seems to be substantiated by scientific tests. John Barsness did an article on it in a past Handloader or Rifle magazine...I disremember which. Got it somewhere in my handloading log downstairs. Cheap and easy, using a household candle. (The kind they sell as "emergency" candles at the supermarket.) Some people just make things harder than they need to be!

  16. #36
    I would really like to see that article. I don't think a candle will get the brass hot enough, fast enough to anneal the brass before it will burn your fingers off. It has been proven that for the brass to be annealed it has to be heated to 700 and 750 degrees.

  17. #37
    Go to 6mm br.com and read the article The Art and Science of Annealing

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelshooter View Post
    I would really like to see that article. I don't think a candle will get the brass hot enough, fast enough to anneal the brass before it will burn your fingers off. It has been proven that for the brass to be annealed it has to be heated to 700 and 750 degrees.

    A candle ought to be hot enough.

    Color tells us about the temperature of a candle flame. The outer core of the candle flame is light blue -- 1670 K (1400 C). That is the hottest part of the flame. The color inside the flame becomes yellow, orange and finally red. The further you reach to the center of the flame, the lower the temperature will be. The red portion is around 1070 K (800 C).

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    On every question of construction let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.

    Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823

  19. #39
    Don't know what kind of candle they were using, I just went out to the garage with a regular storm candle and measured it with my casting thermometer and after about 45 seconds it reach a high of 690 degrees. I then got a 260 remington case that the thermometer fit tight in the case and measured it again, after approx: 10 seconds the case base was to hot to hold but the thermometer was only approx: 200 degrees. Not scientific by any means but not even close to what is needed to anneal brass. I will test again when I get my tempilag back from my friend.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master gnostic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelshooter View Post
    You must be really loading those cases hot. I have never wore out a primer pocket in 40 years of reloading and I have 308 brass that I know have been reloaded at least 30 times.
    You may have something there, I tend to load jacketed bullets on the warm side, otherwise, I'd be shooting
    a cast bullet.

    I don't doubt your word, but I've never seen a case loaded, anywhere near that number of times.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check