Svarog Russian slug molds?

[longbow]

Randy:

I was "riding recoil" today shooting those 2 ball loads! Recovery time was fairly long I'd say! Recoil wasn't an unpleasant jab, more of a big bad push that rocked me backwards... very substantial! I'm betting those 2 balls would ruin a bear's day though.

I don't think there would be any rapid succession of shooting these loads! A guy could probably get a couple or three of reasonably fast but I think the accumulated recoil would take its toll. I'm not sure as to whether the recoil using these is detrimental enough to recovery time to choose something with less recoil. I'd have to try a few in rapid succession to see if I could get more than one aimed shot off if a bear charged. Not much time to recover, work an action and aim again... bears can move fast! That is a consideration in any defensive application.

They aren't actually as heavy as your slug though! The 2 balls run about 625 grs. so hefty but not outrageous. I used 29 grs. of Blue Dot under them so based on weight and slug like bore friction I am sure that can be safely increased into the low to maybe mid 30 gr. area anyway.

That slug is still hollow base isn't it? Just smaller hollow base pin?

What powder and charge are you using under those 670 gr. slugs?

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Randy:

I was "riding recoil" today shooting those 2 ball loads! Recovery time was fairly long I'd say! Recoil wasn't an unpleasant jab, more of a big bad push that rocked me backwards... very substantial!

What powder and charge are you using under those 670 gr. slugs?

Longbow

The reason you were getting rocked back is because you weren't leaning into the gun enough. During those 3 and 4 target shoots I was talking about, I got rocked back by the third shot several times and once I almost went over backwards. You are more crouched over with your stance when doing this and you need to be more squared up to the target. This helps control the recoil better.

Also this is why your LOP needs to be shorter, it allows you to run the gun when more square to the target.

Also it is going to be hard for anyone to shoot hot loads like this just because the recoil knocks you out of position. Much easier with bird shot or low recoil buck or slugs..

Haven't figured out charge for the heavy slugs but I would be looking for around 11-1200 FPS. They are so heavy they won't need as much speed to do serious damage.

Randy

[Petander]

Good to see others are making it to the range as well.

Over here,a beautiful spring weather has hit us. One month early,me likes. I loaded some Svarog Paradox slugs up to 1400 fps for the first time, I was hoping for a straight flight with the appropriate wads but no.

Attachment 236814

Attachment 236815.

30 yds target. I did hit a wooden block in the backstop berm @ 75 meters with my last two fired shots,standing. Always nice to leave range that way.

I'm using an extra plastic gas seal under these slugs for an easy roll crimp. Must try without I guess, another thought is how these wads seat, I'd like to see them completely "flush" but it can't be done without crushing them really hard...?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Petander: Trim the gas seal off the front end of the wad flush to where the slug sits. I put them in the lathe to do it and it's easy. If you don't have a lathe then try a large razor blade.

Even if it comes out slightly uneven it should be better because the slug will be sitting directly on top of the center portion of the wad and the gas seal lip won't influence it to be cockeyed.

If the wad is cockeyed then obviously it will affect the flight.

Randy

[Petander]

How about trimming the last step to fit inside the slug?

With force they go flush in like the uncoated in the pic. But the wad gets crushed as you see. To buy a lathe to trim wads to see if accuracy is better,I'm in for that of course!

Attachment 236873.

I just don't see why these slugs should sit so high,on a narrow plastic ring that most certainly gets pushed inside the slug when fired. A random factor here,isn't it?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Anything that affects the concentricity of the projectile will affect the flight. More so with a rifled barrel than a smoothbore due to the rotation accentuating the out of balance condition.

Shot from a Smooth Bore it will only affect the flight due to inconsistent Aerodynamics as the slug is drag stabilized from a smoothbore.

From a Rifle it is spin stabilized so radial balance is the primary factor in flight.

In either case the closer to concentric you can make the projectile the better or straighter it is going to fly.

You can see in the pics how far I trimmed the front gas seal down below the flat portion of the wad. In the other pic you can see how flush the boolit sits on the top of the wad. It is solidly held in place on the flat surface by the screw and is concentric to the wad.

This slug should fly strait either from a rifled barrel or smoothbore. Maybe? Won't know for sure until it gets shot with some of its bros. Who knows I might be completely FOS!

Randy

[longbow]

Would a 16 ga. nitro card wad under the slug raise it enough to clear that lip... and sit inside the lip? You'd have to punch or drill it in a jig to get the hole centered but that might be easier than trimming those wads. You still need a lathe of course and if not for this reason then just because!

Yeah, I was squared up to the target and sitting fairly straight so the recoil was rocking me. Had I been standing and shooting offhand it likely wouldn't have been so noticeable.

Since these are intended to be for bear protection I'll keep charges fairly heavy. It wouldn't do to not be able to recover and get a second shot off but what hits has to be effective too. I'll set up a penetration test to see how the 0.600" RB's do. Since range is likely to be close they don't have to be screaming out of the muzzle but they do need to be effective.

I think a single slug will give better penetration assuming it is reasonably heavy and hard cast but if the RB's penetrate well enough they offer more total frontal area and 2 wound channels. Could be a trade off.

There aren't likely to be too many people with experience shooting bears with both slugs and 0.600" RB's but maybe hogs? Speak up if you have!

This is discussion for my round ball thread though.

Back to these Russian slugs and looking at your screw attachment. That is just a plain HB slug isn't it? If so then the screw is kinda cantilevered and the wad could shift sideways if things tilt in the forcing cone. I had homemade Brenneke style slugs that did just that believe it or not. Without a central post to stabilize the screw things shifted a bit. I have thought of trying what you are doing with my TC HB slug but thought I would glue fill then drill for the screw so the wad would be supported and the screw couldn't shift sideways if the slug cocks in the forcing cone.

This is the reason I added a post to my Lee slugs. The screw goes through the wad and connects right at the post flush with skirt and drive key. Certainly my 50 yard accuracy was nothing brag about (or even want to remember) but I think that was due to other influences.

I may drill through my Lee's from the nose as you have and attach wads the same way just to try it.

This is getting interesting with so many people trying so many slugs and wads! I will be following these threads... and hopefully contributing.

Longbow

[Chainsaw.]

Fortunecookie45lc on you tune has a whole seires about the slugs and their wads. He showed that someone sells two little spilt rings (imagine 3/4” pipe cut ~1/4” long and split into two even halves) that go on the base of the wad to support it while you press the slug onto the wad. Gets them pushed all the way on. This way they stay with the slug as intended. He was gettimg 2” accuracy at 50 yards.

Now if I can just remember who he said was selling them.

Edit; here is everything you need.

https://thereloadersnetwork.com/prod...egory/shotgun/

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB: It would take a 20 ga wad to work. I have 16 ga cards and they are too big around to go inside the gas seal on the front of the wad.

That's why I trimmed it back to flush and eliminated the card idea..

Yeah, I was squared up to the target and sitting fairly straight so the recoil was rocking me. Had I been standing and shooting offhand it likely wouldn't have been so noticeable.

I had it happen to me while standing and I just started shooting before I was down on the gun and I literally got pushed back far enough to where I had to get off the trigger cuz I was going over backwards. 3 shots in quick succession was all it took, and they were #8 birdshot. Proper fighting stance is key to make this work. You'll find that both rifle and shotgun stances are the same and that is part of the reason for shortening the LOP on the gun to around 13". It allows you to square up to the target easier and still be able to reach the fore end to run the slide. I'll be able to get about 13.5" LOP out of the A5 because I won't have to grip the fore end to actuate it. I just have to support it.

The slug in the picture is the heavy version which has a shallow tapered hold in the back. The screw has to go thru about 1/4" so it is supported pretty well. Much better than the lighter version of the slug that has the hole in the nose after casting. The web in the slug is much thinner on that one and could cock to one side, but I can't seem to push it off center with hand pressure so I think it would stay aligned . The heavy slug version will definitely stay aligned.

Randy

[Petander]

Thanks Chainsaw,I just bumped into those "anti-crush" clips last night. I may be crushing the wads too much when seating.

Attachment 236909.

My wads are actually seated deeper than what this pic from Svarog sire shows:

Attachment 236910.

I use very slippery dry lube for seating.

[Petander]

LB: It would take a 20 ga wad to work. I have 16 ga cards and they are too big around to go inside the gas seal on the front of the wad.

That's why I trimmed it back to flush and eliminated the card idea...

Yes now I understand, I got confused (easy ) we are talking about all these different wads. That BPI wad needs a 20 card or trimming. The almost identical green Gualandi wad fits perfectly the way it is.

EDIT: My bad here: Gualandi wad fits and centers Zveroboy bases really nice. Paradox base has no bevel so it's another task to figure out.

Attachment 236911

[longbow]

"Paradox base has no bevel so it's another task to figure out" Good to know! If is these little details that can take time to sort out and cause grief!

I may wind up buying one of these Russian moulds too!

I'll take a look and see what wads I can order from Canadian BPI. I used to order from the States but last time I tried they told me I had to order from the Canadian rep. He's been pretty good though so I should be able to get some good selection.

I think I'll try my TC HB slug with the screw through the nose idea. I like that. Just need some wads.

Randy:

The slug loads weren't light but also didn't rock me back. They were pretty controllable. Those 2 ball loads gave me an unexpected push that really rocked me back. I think 2 fast shots would have put me over backwards! The recoil wasn't painful at all just a great big push. I have shot heavier payloads over Blue Dot but not had that kind of push.

I'll load up some more Brenneke'ized Lee slugs and my full bore TC slugs stealing your screw through the nose idea. I think next time I'll pack my single shot out as well since I know where it shoots. Just getting the Slugster set up and learning it.

Oh... the Slugster trigger pull is way better since I put in the M*Carbo spring set and lubed everything. Not bad at all now. If I get another Mossberg I'll get another M*Carbo spring set too! I am happy with mine. They make spring sets for other guns too.

And a question... have you recovered any of your Russian slugs with screwed on wads? Just curious about what it all looks like after impact. I guess the screw stability thing is a bit pointless after impact because even if it didn't shift in the bore it would very likely at impact. Still its interesting to see recovered slugs and gas seals. The wad/gas seal usually has a story to tell.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB: I haven't been able to shoot anything in the last 2 months due to the roads being closed to my range by mudslides. I was all pumped up for this weekend but it looks like it is going to rain again tomorrow and Friday, Saturday and Sunday so that road to my Range will be closed again. (really somebody could fart and Cal-Trans would close that road.) We had snow down to 1500 feet last week and it screwed everything up. (we are such *******!) The road to the Santa Barbara Range is also closed so my 3 gun shoot for March got cancelled too.

I will try to recover some when I get a chance.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB On another note, it is about time you looked into a Magpul Buttstock and Fore End for your gun. The adjustable LOP on the stock allows you to shorten the LOP down to where you can square up to the target. This is one of the Best $100's you can spend on your gun and I did both of mine. My LOP is 13" on both my guns.

The other parts is when loading the gun between volleys you be keeping the gun mounted to your shoulder and be port loading or stuffing the magazine while holding the gun in place with your right hand/arm. This takes some practice as you'll have to build up some muscle power to do it.

When You port load like this you are going to lean/crouch forward into the gun as you run the slide closed and as you come on target you fire. It becomes very natural after you practice it.

I am pushing you towards learning the Tactical Side of running these guns as it directly transfers to Home Defense and Bear Defense. All these techniques work great and once you get some of them down you'll be a better shooter. It made a tremendous difference in the way I shoot everything.

[Petander]

I made some 20 gauge "pellet style" Svarog slugs today. My second time with that mold,the first time was perfect,made some 500.

Alternating with a Lee 575 ball mold,everything was going nice until I decided to lube the mold pins. I used Mihec blue lube and obviously got some lube inside the Svarog mold cavity because the slugs started to look wrong right away.

So I put the Svarog away,let it cool down and cleaned it with Brakekleen. Start again,still wrinkled bullets. Kinda puzzled I put the Svarog mold away and went on with Lee.

Later I cleaned Svarog again,couldn't give up... and used a couple of matches to smoke it - I don't usually smoke my molds... I never needed to... And this time I started getting good slugs just like that.

Live and learn,20 years of casting without smoking a mold. Tried a few times, found no reason for smoking molds. This Svarog really liked it. Ultra clean was impossible to cast with.

In the pic the only difference is a non-smoked / smoked mold.

[longbow]

Well there you go then! Live and learn! That explains why the wads were crushing by the time I got the slug on as far as it should be going.

How do those clips work? As in what holds them together while the slug is being pressed onto the wad? Does the slug/wad/clips go into that seating stem and die?

Wouldn't a short length of 12 ga. barrel work as well? Or a piece of bar stock bored to 0.729"?

Not likely things I need to know because I doubt I'll go that route anyway. I'm leaning more to the screw on wads and will be ordering stuff soon so will plan on trying those universal BPI wads to be screwed onto some slugs. I am kinda liking that Zveroboy not segmented idea.

Also, looking at a fully rifled barrel and scope package for the Slugster. If I go fully rifled then things will change a bit re attached wads.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB: Have you been practicing holding your shells and port loading them like I showed you above?

You need to make some dummy shells to practice with. Make them out of Hulls that are different color than what you normally use. I used Green ones as I primarily reload Silver and Red ones.

Just leave the dead primer in and stuff a wad in with some shot and close it back up. That way it feels just like a regular loaded round.

You can practice in the house while it is still snowing!

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

I can play outside now! It is still cool but it has finally stopped snowing! This has been the longest, coldest, snowiest February and March I an remember.

I should have gone to the range last weekend but didn't. I did make up some full bore Brenneke like slugs to test against the Brenneke'ized Lee slugs. I also lubed up several hundred 316299's for my .303's and a couple hundred 434640's for my Marlin.

No, I confess I have not played with port loading yet. I will though I promise! I am hoping that if I need the Slugster for bear protection that 5 rounds is enough that I don't have to be port loading!

On a different note, I was just looking at the AS slug site and they are offering another version of the Russian slugs:

https://www.facebook.com/bulletmold/...u&__tn__=EHH-R

Yikes! Some address! If the whole Facebook thing come sup it is the slug with the blue tail wad way down the list "Kontareva 3"

I see that BT has looked and asked about these tail wads too. Those I like! Much more rigid than the typical squishy leg wads!

Longbow

[gpidaho]

I have some of these I could send you for tests if you haven’t tried them yet longbow The same slug as the segmented slug without the segments Fairly large hollowpoint


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[Petander]

That HP shoots fairly well here in my smooth cyl bore.

Isn't this funny,in these "Great New Global Digital Times" we are playing around with all these slugs,balls,smoothbores etc...? Kinda ancient but I like it!

A mold from Titan, USA just arrived in Finland today. Coatings from Australia came yesterday. Felt and cork wads are on their way from Italy. These green wads for this russian slug came from Greece. Etc etc...

"Keep on slugging in the Free World!"