Titan ReloadingRepackboxLee PrecisionMidSouth Shooters Supply
RotoMetals2ADvertise hereInline Fabrication

Page 15 of 16 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213141516 LastLast
Results 281 to 300 of 307

Thread: Svarog Russian slug molds?

  1. #281
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    2,014
    Yes,coating is great for many reasons. I very rarely handle bare lead any more.

    Here is the steel "target" :

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	300720194629.jpg 
Views:	38 
Size:	88.5 KB 
ID:	246249

  2. #282
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    341
    I really need help here, regarding the Svarog "Italian Style" slug. (The pent roof, Gualandi style slug, to be clear.) I have searched and searched for info on this, and watched FortuneCookie45LC videos. I would think that since Reloaders Network sells these molds and wads, that they would have info on them???

    My question/quandary is regarding the proper seating of the tail wad. Is the wad supposed to be seated to the second "click", leaving a slight gap between the base of the wad and the slug, or should it be seated fully, with NO gap between the botton of the tail wad and the slug???

    My measurements of the part of the wad that enters the slug indicate it does not bottom out in the slug until the wad is inserted fully, leaving no gap showing on the outside. Further, the design of the base of the slug with an internal step, and the corresponding area of the wad, appear as though they should mate, once again seemingly indicating that the wad should be seated fully, with no gap at the bottom. So everything seems to indicate that the wad should go all the way up into the slug, and have no gap showing at the bottom of the slug/wad interface.

    HOWEVER!!

    I have very, very carefully seated numerous wads all the way into the slug, with no gap at the bottom. In virtually every case, when I do so, the bottom part of the slug, and the lower driving band, crack! It is as though seating the wad fully forces outward too hard, and cracks the slug. This has happened every single time I deep seated a wad in this slug. My slug is not too hard/brittle, being cast of pure lead. I am using wad support when seating the wad, and only going far enough to just barely seat the wad fully, yet the slug cracks every time.

    I have searched for hours for info on this. Can somebody with specific experience PLEASE HELP???

    Thanks!
    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  3. #283
    Boolit Grand Master

    tomme boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    5,003
    There is a pic somewhere that a guy uses a channel lock and modifies the jaws. Top just holds the slug, bottom has fork that goes between the legs then pushes the wad up into the slug.

    But yes you want the wad fully inserted. Also be careful to not crush the wad. That can change the stack height and can really mess up the pressures because of how deep the slug is in the case.

  4. #284
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    341
    I have devised a couple of different methods to seat the wad fully into the slug without damage to the wad. (I'm a machinist and make many precision tools.) So that's not my problem.

    My problem is if I seat the wad fully, to the point where there is no gap at the bottom of the wad, the slug cracks. Every time. A small crack appears that goes up vertically through the lower driving band of the slug, and partway up the shank.

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  5. #285
    Boolit Grand Master

    tomme boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    5,003
    Then you have a problem with your lead.

  6. #286
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    341
    Well, I did consider that, but it's pure, dead soft lead. I did water drop the slugs however. I don't think that would make pure lead this brittle, or would it?

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  7. #287
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Beautiful Idaho
    Posts
    2,349
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe water dropping pure soft lead would harden it. I think at least some arsenic or antimony is required. It might change the grain structure though and may be the problem causing the cracking I'm just not sure. Gp

  8. #288
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Castlegar, B.C., Canada
    Posts
    6,948
    Pure lead does not harden except by work hardening but that isn't much. Generally antimony is added at about 3% antimony on up that makes the lead harder even air cooled but water dropping will make it even harder and oven heat treating can make it quite hard.

    I'm a bit surprised these slugs are cracking at all and especially if pure lead. I'd expect pure lead to stretch some before cracking and those insert wads shouldn't be that much too big unless you are tying to seat them too deep and they are expanding from the compression.

    Are you sure they are pure lead? If so they should be very malleable and not crack if you whack them with a hammer. They should run about 5 BHN if pure lead.

    There are clips available for keeping the cushion leg from collapsing while the wad is being seated but there are also two places it bottoms ~ one is the skirt as you describe, the other is the post in the middle. If the wad is bottomed on the post and you are trying to get it to seat deeper maybe that is the issue?

    Longbow

  9. #289
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    341
    Yeah, that is my understanding as well; that water quenching does not harden pure lead. I only water dropped these out of habit, and because it rather guarantees the boolit/slug doesn't get dented nor deformed when dropped.

    It's on my "to do" list to make a lead hardness tester. I make many of my own tools. Just as I made tools to seat these wads. With mine, you can literally see the wad seating, and stop pushing once the wad is fully seated. And the wad cushion is not damaged; with my setup the wad cushion section does not get pressed on at all.

    My measurements indicate that the post of the wad does not bottom out in the slug until the wad is seated fully and with no gap. So the wad bottoming out on the post should not be an issue. The issue seems to be the step portion of the wad is forcing outward on the slug skirt, with enough outward force to crack the skirt.

    Back to lead hardness... I clamped one of these assembled slugs in the vice really hard, TRYING to get the slug to crack further in order to get the wad out. It wouldn't crack; just kept deforming/squashing. On another one, I mangled the slug with pliers. Same thing; no further cracking, just mangling of the slug.

    Very puzzling, and aggravating. My thought is, even if I only seat them to the second "click", and leave that small gap, when fired the wad is going to be forced the rest of the way into the slug, cracking it anyway. That certainly couldn't be good for accuracy....

    Vexed here...

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  10. #290
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Castlegar, B.C., Canada
    Posts
    6,948
    Well, no more help here! My only experience with these types of slugs are with the Paradox slugs that Krackenfan69 sent me a year or so ago. I was fairly impressed with the wad design and the cushion leg. Cushion legs are the weak spot I think in that many like Winchester collapse but may not re-extend fully, consistently or evenly so if attached to a slug that will affect accuracy. The Gualandi DGS slugs have a pretty good cushion leg and so do the petal-less green wads BT and others screw to some Russian slugs.

    The wads you have are even better I think.

    Anyway, the Paradox slugs gave me the same issue with seating but I believe the skirts are thicker on those. I didn't have any cracking or swelling issues even if I collapsed the cushion leg.

    I have actually been thinking about getting the Gualandi clone/fire hydrant slug mould you have as they are supposed to be one of the better designs for accuracy from smoothbore... from what I have read anyway.

    Are you sure the cracks aren't casting flaws... like where there was a small wrinkle?

    Longbow

  11. #291
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Bowling Green Kentucky
    Posts
    94
    I got my Svarog special molds and shuttlecock wads from Russia. Like many have said, gotta run the temperature way up to get them to fill, and even when gripping the top of the slug with the mold, it can be difficult to get the pin out.
    My main gripe is the cost of the shuttlecock wads: $80 / 500 plus shipping. They don't have much more plastic than Claybusters so they can't be that expensive to make.
    Anybody know of a cheaper source?
    OCCAM'S RAZOR is the problem-solving principle - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

  12. #292
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    341
    Well, it's definitely not my lead. I can easily scratch the lead with a thumbnail on the cast slugs, and I smashed one with a hammer. Two medium hard hits with a hammer did this to the slug, and even where that skirt doubled back 180 degrees, it did not crack.

    Out of about 15 slugs, only two did not crack when seating the wad. And the two that did not crack were a couple of rejects I was going to throw back to be remelted because they had some wrinkles!!

    Here's some pics to show all I've been trying to explain.

    Vettepilot
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_7188.jpg 
Views:	17 
Size:	55.4 KB 
ID:	275217   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_7189.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	51.6 KB 
ID:	275218   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_7191.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	37.1 KB 
ID:	275219   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_7192.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	40.6 KB 
ID:	275220   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_7193.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	43.6 KB 
ID:	275221  

    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  13. #293
    Boolit Grand Master

    tomme boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    5,003
    Looks like the cracks are following a cold wrinkle in each of the slugs. You can see what looks like a wrinkle in each that cracked.

    Where did your lead come from? It could have bismuth in it and that would make it do exactly what it did

  14. #294
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    341
    This has happened on 15 different slugs, most of which had cast perfectly. I grabbed some rejects to put together to take the pics just to show exactly what I was talking about. As a matter of fact, those two that did not crack were rejects as well, and virtually the only ones I loaded that did not crack!!

    I really do not think the lead is the issue. Look at the one I smashed. It is folded nearly completely in two yet did not crack.

    Has anyone here deep seated the wad successfully with this exact slug? (The "Paradox" slugs are a different design with a much thicker skirt.)

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  15. #295
    Boolit Grand Master

    tomme boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    5,003
    Lots of people all over the web are using these wads and that mold. You are the first I have heard of that is cracking the slugs.

    Lets see how you are seating these wads. That may help

  16. #296
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Lone Star State
    Posts
    1,174
    The Reloader’s Network sells a two piece aluminum collar that you attach to the wad when seating the slug. The also make a die that fits in standard presses to seat the slug. I suggest you buy both.

    They should look like this:


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #297
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    341
    As you can see from the two that I've shown that did not crack, the wad is seated with virtually no compression zone damage nor deformation. The Gualandi style Svarog slug I am struggling with is much thinner and less stout in construction than the slugs thoughtfully posted above. The step on the wad measures .014 thousands larger in diameter than the recess in this so-called "Hydrant Slug" of mine. When forced together, this spreads, and cracks the slug skirt and lower driving band. That driving band is quite slim, and thus doesn't take much force to damage.

    Even TRN, the US distributor for this mold is having difficulty diagnosing my problem. I am quite happy for his ongoing support.

    If anyone has experience with this same slug, and possibly pictures too, we would greatly appreciate hearing from you!!

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  18. #298
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Lone Star State
    Posts
    1,174


    What alloy again?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #299
    Boolit Grand Master

    tomme boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    5,003
    I tried to recreate this and you need to let the lead cool off a little more before pulling the pin out. You have to be pulling it to one side or the other when the lead has not had enough time to cool and solidify. Try going a little slower. And coat the pin with some moly or smoke it.

  20. #300
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by Blood Trail View Post


    What alloy again?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Nice looking casts. But this is showing the wad seated to what we call "the second click". This is easily done and I have no problem seating my own to this level.

    Look at the slug on the left. See that pocket/ledge in the very bottom? Now look carefully at the wad. It has a corresponding protrusion that should fit into that pocket. But when you seat the slug deep enough for this to mate, the slug cracks.

    Look at the pictures of mine. The wads are fully seated with no gap at the bottom such as yours has.

    Would you do me a favor and seat a couple of yours all the way deep like mine, and tell me if they crack too??

    Thanks,
    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

Page 15 of 16 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213141516 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check