9mm 124 gr anything softer than Clays?

[SdRemmy]

I am using 3.3 grains of titewad over 124gr TC for our league rounds it has been very accurate and has minimal recoil.

I think I'll pick up a lb of that to give it a try to.

[SdRemmy]

I'm headed back to work tonight so it'll be a few days before I can post any results. Thanks for the suggestions. I will be trying these out!

[NavyVet1959]

I googled it and that is a very slow burning rifle powder?

Oh yeah... VERY SLOW... For the 20mm cannon. Even a full 10mm case of it compressed will not allow the slide to operate.

You would need to be REALLY DESPERATE to want to use it for a handgun, but it will fire and the bullet will exit the barrel and you won't have to worry about overpressure.

[dougader]

I know some guys who swear by Solo 1000 for minor power shooting loads in USPSA.

[GARD72977]

The best advice i can give you is to not chase a soft shooting load. When you learn to see. the sights lift and return to target you will be able to shot fast splits with whatever load you use.

Trying to get your splits fast with timming will never be consistant.

In a practice session i will get a couple of .11 and a bunch of .12's. I can keep them in the A zone at this speed out to 7yds.

I have had to switch to factory loads during a match and could not see any difference in my accuracy.

I know this is not what you are asking about but it really is the way to get faster. I actually like a little snap in the gun to get the recoil inpluse over with faster. I use 130gr bullet with AA#2

[Scharfschuetze]

I agree with Gard. It's a 9mm and it is pretty soft shooting already compared to a 40 S&W or a 45 ACP in a pistol of comparable weight.

Semi-autos, unless modified with light springs and milled out slides, are really set up to operate within a prescribed level of recoil impulse for reliability. Engineers spend a lot of time balancing slide weight, round used and spring weights to ensure they operate with standard ammo for the calibre. A revolver on the other hand, as it is manually operated, can be downloaded to the Nth degree if so desired.

Bullseye 1911s or 1911s set up for steel shooting are perfect examples of handguns modified to shoot very softly. The cost for these is not for the feint of heart!

The 38 AMU 45 autos of the Army teams were the lightest shooting handguns, other than the aforementioned Walther 32 international pistols, that I ever shot. Of course they were extensively modified to shoot the 38 Special calibre. S&W used to make the Model 52 in 38 HBWC 38 Special and it was pretty soft shooting too. They are pretty pricey now and they only came with 5 round magazines.

I understand that plastic framed pistols are supposed to ameliorate recoil to some extent, by my Model 19 Glock, other than the grip angle, doesn't seem any softer to me than my Browning High Power or Beretta 92F.

Newton said it best and I probably don't need to repeat his laws regarding motion, but keep in mind, if you are pushing a heavy enough bullet fast enough to operate the action, then you are going to have to accept the level of recoil that comes with that power or impulse level. While powder weight should be figured into the equation for recoil, a 9mm uses so little that I don't really think that there is a hand calibrated enough to tell much difference between Unique, 231 or any of the other useful 9mm powders when all are loaded to the same velocity.

My choice for a light load in a 9mm were I to load one? I guess I'd start by dropping the factory spring weight a few pounds with an after market spring and then look at a cast bullet of about 100 to 115 grains and loaded over Clays or similar fast powder to a velocity of 900 fps or a high enough velocity to ensure 100% function.

A final thought would be this. Get a 30 Luger barrel for your pistol and a light mainspring. Your magazine and ejector will all work with it without any further modifications. Load a 90 grain RN and don't look back.

[SdRemmy]

The best advice i can give you is to not chase a soft shooting load. When you learn to see. the sights lift and return to target you will be able to shot fast splits with whatever load you use.

That is some pretty good advice. Not what I'm looking for but I do appreciate your participation. I do need to work on my techniques in several areas. I shot several k's of 9mm from factory to my full powered reloads with j words before I got into casting and stumbled across the soft shooting Clays recipe. It turns out I really like shooting softer shooting loads. When I see the sights lift and return to target with them I can shoot considerably faster than when using the technique with a snappy load. Now I'm looking for a softer shooting load that has a little better accuracy. I've done a bit of load development and looking through this site before posting this. But as you can tell by the powders suggested on this thread $25 here for a lb of powder and $25 there for a lb of powder was getting old. Some of these guys have already had experience finding a softer shooting load and decent accuracy with certain powders. Not everybody prefers softer loads or loads with a little snap.

[SdRemmy]

I agree with Gard. It's a 9mm and it is pretty soft shooting already compared to a 40 S&W or a 45 ACP in a pistol of comparable weight.


Newton said it best and I probably don't need to repeat his laws regarding motion, but keep in mind, if you are pushing a heavy enough bullet fast enough to operate the action, then you are going to have to accept the level of recoil that comes with that power or impulse level. While powder weight should be figured into the equation for recoil, a 9mm uses so little that I don't really think that there is a hand calibrated enough to tell much difference between Unique, 231 or any of the other useful 9mm powders when all are loaded to the same velocity.

That's for sure. It's also why I didn't choose those calibers. Although old Newton seems to have gotten in right. His laws have to be used in a certain context. There is definitely a difference in powders. Have you have shot a 147 gr load with a fast powder to make power factor? There is certainly a lot of hands calibrated to feel the recoil differences. Otherwise all the competitors that are trying to get as fast as can with their shooting be wouldn't be using heavier bullets. It's starting to look like I may have to go to a 147 gr bullet to achieve what I am looking for. A 90 gr bullet sounds like a good idea but I compete in a few bowling pin matches and steel plate rack challenges that make that heavy bullet pretty useful. A 90 gr bullet to make power factor would have to be going around 1400 fps to barely make minor power factor. A 124gr bullet has to be going around 1015fps to make about the same power factor. A 147 gr bullet has to go around 860 fps to make about the same power factor.

[GARD72977]

The pros dont seem to use the 147. I had a conversation with Matt Minks and he prefers 125gr. Listen to a few Steve Anderson podcast. Ben Steoger doesnt care what weight or what powder he uses.

Not tryint to troll your thread but you are going down a rabbit hole chasing a soft shooting load.

[SdRemmy]

From what I've been able to find it seems that they do. It's kind of funny that the store link from Matt Minks website doesn't offer 124gr bullets in competition 9mm. I listened to a Steve Anderson podcast, was brutal to get through. He apparently likes different weights for different guns. Ben Steoger from what I've found competes with 147gr bullets. Finding accurate data on what the best actually use was surprisingly hard to do and they could have changed their bullet preferences. Couldn't find Max or Jerry's.

What I'm looking for is powder suggestions to find decent powders with lower recoil and acceptable accuracy. I will then try them out and decide for myself if I dig or if I'll use the powder for practice or a different caliber. Looking for all the help I can get to shoot faster more accurately. As you said before it's mostly technique but there is other factors as well.

[SdRemmy]

I haven't tested any of the suggested powders yet. Today it was 6 degrees and snowing.

[NavyVet1959]

I haven't tested any of the suggested powders yet. Today it was 6 degrees and snowing.

Put your location in your profile so that those of us in areas where it is short sleeve weather can laugh appropriately.

[Scharfschuetze]

Today it was 6 degrees and snowing.

Yikes! That's way too cold, although I've been out when it's -40 F. Not much fun.

At any rate, I thought that I'd make you jealous and show you my day at the range today. 35 degrees, sunny and only a mild breeze here at McChord Air Force Base. Trap didn't go well with a 23 posted, but two rounds of skeet netted a 24 and another 24.

[garym1a2]

Wst would be a good one to try, I have not used it in 9mm. But in 40 S&W it makes a great minor load.

[BK7saum]

Is the poor accuracy due to the load or to the shooter. Slower, softer loads are very sensitive to grip pressure and correct/consistent follow through. I'm just asking because I have seen this issue shooting the s&w 38 spcl pistol. Accuracy was excellent with a consistent grip and follow through, but went to c*r*a*p* with a looser, inconsistent hold. Purely shooter inconsistencies. Have you benched or ranson-rested the pistol with your soft shooting loads.

[SdRemmy]

Is the poor accuracy due to the load or to the shooter. Slower, softer loads are very sensitive to grip pressure and correct/consistent follow through. I'm just asking because I have seen this issue shooting the s&w 38 spcl pistol. Accuracy was excellent with a consistent grip and follow through, but went to c*r*a*p* with a looser, inconsistent hold. Purely shooter inconsistencies. Have you benched or ranson-rested the pistol with your soft shooting loads.

i have put it on a rest. I'll do it again. It very well could be me. I think it's the load but I will put it on a rest some more to rule out the human error.

[SdRemmy]

I am in Wyoming. First real winter we've had in years. The old timers say that it keeps the riff raff out

[NavyVet1959]

I am in Wyoming. First real winter we've had in years. The old timers say that it keeps the riff raff out

I think Arizona says the same thing about their summers...

[SdRemmy]

Made it to the range today. Loaded up some of the Titewad 3.2 gr and shot these offhand at ten yards. I realize ten yards isn't the best distance to do some testing. Much less offhand but this is what I came up with. Recoil was pretty soft. Had some soot around the brass so I might bump it up a tenth of a grain or two and see what happens. Have yet to chrono them. What kind of accuracy would you guys find acceptable?

[GARD72977]

It depends on how accurate of a off hand shooter you are. Just about any load and gun will do 1" at 10 yards. That is good enough for any IDPA match. The mechanical accuracy part is not that important. My CZ shadow is far more accurate the the glock that i was shooting. I can give you a lot of reasons it should be better but the scores really disnt change. Im more comfortable with 50Yd shots now. If the load functions the gun i would go with it. I do agree about uping the charge a little to seal the case. A dirty chamber may cause a jam. Good luck and ler us know how this turns out.