Think I May Be Done With BH209---Long winded sad story

[koger]

I started using BH209 last year, fired perfect every time, great velocities, flat shooting,and zero issues with it. I have supreme confidence in it, in my two TC Omegas, took several deer, all long yardages, hit where it was supposed to. I followed their directions, to the T. Sorry you are having issues. ON all my traditional guns, I use real black powder only.

[NSB]

Yes, using a drill bit to cut the CARBON build up out of the breech plug does fix it. Even CVA shooters and EVERY other muzzleloading brand has to use the drill bit to properly remove carbon build up from the breech plug. SOAKING in solvent DOES NOT remove it.
http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/breech-plug-cleaning/

FM, I too use a drill bit to clean my breech plug. However, the design of some of the Knight plugs doesn't lend it well to using BH209, and Knight tells you that. I have friends who tried using it and got the same results the OP is getting. Even with cleaning the plug every ten shots they were getting misfires. More so in the cold weather of late hunting season. Don't argue with me about it, take your case right to Knight and tell them they don't know what they're talking about. They're the ones saying it can be a problem and not to use it. They seem to be correct.

[Omega]

Another thing to consider are the primers. The BP primers are not recommended for BH209, regular shotgun primers are recommended. When I first started to mess with BH209 I had a few FTF due to the primers, I guess they are not made as hot as the regular primers.

[Squeeze]

I have a pile of Knights. Cant say how many pounds of BH i've been through, but buy it by the 5 lb jug. I don't have a problem, ever. (I only use it in Knight bolt guns with bare primer setup) But If you dont like it, Go with something else. Confidence alone goes a long way

[Edward]

Sounds like my experience and mine was 2 new cans of BH209 in 3 different TC hawkens . I have used 209 for several yrs with great performance until those 2 cans . Lots of opinions concerning my cleaning methods , but the only thing that got me shooting again was drilling a small hole at the breech end of the barrel suggested by Johnson 1942.Details can be found on this site as my grief started just a few months ago ,5 barrels done so far and 209 works great !

[54bore]

But If you dont like it, Go with something else. Confidence alone goes a long way

Right here ^^^^!!!

[johnson1942]

edward, thanks for telling others about your success. its simple, your just getting rid of the back pressure so the fire can reach the powder fast and harshly. i wouldnt be surprised if accuracy improves also because of consistant burn of powder.

[Saxtonyoung]

I have heard of this drilling a small hole in breech before and was wondering if anyone has any pictures of this they could share.

[johnson1942]

i cant remember if i posted some quite a while ago but i think i did. a 1/32 hole is drilled into the combustion chamber in the back of the combustion chamber or just in frot of the breech plug in the combustion chamber(both the same thing). drill it in on the left or right side at about a 45 degree angle as your looking from the back. the hole is drilled straight into the barrel. this hole lets the trapped air in the combustion chamber get pushed out by the fire coming into the chamber. if their is no escape for the air it can create a back pressure that doesnt allow the flame to reach the powder with some breech plugs. this hole has been seen on sidelocks that go back to the 1840/s. it even works on inlines. the flame reaches the powder better with the hole in the breech and a lot lot faster. just keep you finger off the hole when the gun is fired as if you dont you will get a good snap that will really wake you up. dont ask me how i know. it is a trick from the old old timers that is simple and really really works. pm/ edward he can tell all about it also.

[Saxtonyoung]

Pictures anyone ?

[rsrocket1]

I don't think BH209 is recommended to be used on slamfire rifles like Knights.
I use it on both the Optima Pro and Optima V2 and it works 100%. I have the BH209 breech plug for the V2 but I haven't found the need to replace the original one yet. Two things are very important in setting off BH209. First, it needs to be packed down tightly against the breech. An overpowder card or wad will help keep it there. The worst think you can use is a loosely seated hollow base bullet which allows powder to move around under it. Secondly, the flame from the primer must be fully contained and sent into the powder. That means the primer cannot allow the gases to leak around it. A loose fitting primer in the locked position will allow gases and flame to be diverted away from the powder and cause ignition problems. CVA sells a shim kit that allows you to push the firing pin plug slightly forward to give an interference fit when you close the breech. You must be very careful to choose the shim(s) so that the primer rim causes a friction fit without the breech touching the primer face. This can be tested by coloring the back of the primer with a magic marker and looking for rub marks on the rim and not the face.

BH209 likes hot primers. I like to use Federal 209A's which are about the hottest primers around. Another good choice is the Winchester standard 209 primers which are not quite so hot but are the tallest primers available. This makes for a good fit. Before getting the CVA shim kit, I even used a 0.010" washer at the bottom of the primer hole to make sure I had a good tight seal between the primer face and the firing pin bushing.


The very first time I shot with my Optima Pro, there was daylight between the primer and the firing pin bushing and it was evident by seeing the fouling shot primers vs the more powerful full shot primers which pushed the primer back into the bushing face and imprinted the tooling mark on the primer face.


You could also see that the one and only misfire that I ever had with this ML showed soot on the primer face. This is where the primer gases leaked around the primer and fouled the primer face.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

yep, gotta seal up the gasses.

The o ring is very simple but does require more oomph to close the action.

[HPT]

i cant remember if i posted some quite a while ago but i think i did. a 1/32 hole is drilled into the combustion chamber in the back of the combustion chamber or just in frot of the breech plug in the combustion chamber(both the same thing). drill it in on the left or right side at about a 45 degree angle as your looking from the back. the hole is drilled straight into the barrel. this hole lets the trapped air in the combustion chamber get pushed out by the fire coming into the chamber. if their is no escape for the air it can create a back pressure that doesnt allow the flame to reach the powder with some breech plugs. this hole has been seen on sidelocks that go back to the 1840/s. it even works on inlines. the flame reaches the powder better with the hole in the breech and a lot lot faster. just keep you finger off the hole when the gun is fired as if you dont you will get a good snap that will really wake you up. dont ask me how i know. it is a trick from the old old timers that is simple and really really works. pm/ edward he can tell all about it also.

Would it work (letting out thr trapped air) using a hole in the nipple? Maybe a Slick shot nipple with the hole facing away?

[Edward]

I have heard of this drilling a small hole in breech before and was wondering if anyone has any pictures of this they could share.

Hope this helps, Attachment 186951Attachment 186951Attachment 186951

[tomme boy]

Thats odd! Who came up with that?

[johnson1942]

its not odd and someone in the 1840/s came up with that. again as ive posted several times before, i first saw this on a high end 1840/s side lock. didnt know what it was for or why it was their. then soon after that dixie had a artice about it in one of their catalogs. all it is is a 1/32 hole into the back of the combustion chamber, just infront of the breech. this allows the air trapped behind the bullet to be push out by the primer flame instead of being compressed. sometimes that compressed air can blow the fame back where it came from and not reach the powder. then a missfire. with the 1/32 hole the ignition is faster and consistant. i even find on my guns the breech are is cleaner after firing. edward, if my memory is correct did this 1/32 hole to the guns he was having trouble getting to consistanly ignite and it cured the problem. again, no one know the name of the gun smith who came up with this, as he is from the 1840/s, and it isnt a hair brain idea, it is sound science and you cant get more traditional that from the 1840/s. just a recycled old very sound idea.

[Saxtonyoung]

Thanks Edward for the pictures.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Air trapped behind the bullet? Every time I load, I hear air coming out the vent or nipple. I'd hate to deal with that hole once it starts to erode away from the gas cutting.

[54bore]

It makes sense, I understand the concept. But that is the LAST thing i would/could ever imagine doing to one of my rifles! Burning BH209 would NOT be that important to me! I'd throw the BH209 in the Garbage, or sprinkle it on Slugs. Switch to real Black

[GoexBlackhorn]

It makes sense, I understand the concept. But that is the LAST thing i would/could ever imagine doing to one of my rifles! Burning BH209 would NOT be that important to me! I'd throw the BH209 in the Garbage, or sprinkle it on Slugs. Switch to real Black

I haven't thrown my BH209 away yet. But I have switched back to real black. Blackhorn is just too fussy and if one doesn't use magnum powder charges or isn;t worried about using more cleaning patches with real black, then no need to continue with Blackhorn. All the powders need a swabbing at the end of the day shooting...... even Blackhorn here in the humid Upper Midwest / Great Lakes region. So worries about corrosion doesn't exist with ML owners that maintain their guns daily anyways.

Plus there's the price factor. Real Black gives us 16oz of powder for significantly less money spent, than Blackhorn at 10 ounces. Then there's the accuracy factor. Blackhorn likes magnum powder charges for accuracy (110-120gr). Not so with real black. Since 90+% of deer harvests are inside 100 yards, 80-90 grains of real black saves us money there too. Plus real black is accurate all the way down to minimum grain charges.