Think I May Be Done With BH209---Long winded sad story

[Themoose]

Beeing a "geezer" I have developed patience out of necessity over the years... but as my hero Popeye said, " I stands all I can stands and I can't stands no more!"... I've shot several pounds of BH209 since it came out and only previously had issues with one rifle... A Knight 50 Disc that would occasionally FTF only igniting part of the charge and you could watch the bullet leave the barrel... recently I revisited a couple of inlines with paperpatching knowledge picked up from Ron and Roger to fine tune... well, it all went down hill from there.... on a trip to the range last week my pet rifle FTF on the first shot... never happened before... so I removed charge and started from scratch... fired enough to get new scope on paper then switched to the Knight 50... about 1 in 4 were the old squib load thing from the past... thinking it was issue with loose fit I left the range and returned to the man cave for some changes to both bullet, wrap and wads to get a better fit on the 50... Today was full of optimism.. wrong thing to do... first shot on favorite rifle again, not even a squib load.. just primer pop... not my first rodeo... I had already dried the bore thoroughly and fired 3 209 primers thru the critter... dismantled it, cleaned it out and reloaded... went bang, but left a whole lot more residue than normal..(I'm anal and wipe between shots)... thinking it was primer issue, I changed brands... and all seemed well for a couple of shots... I was careful to load out of the newly opened(but out of my stash) can... remembering last week's episode had both older charges and new ones... then another squib.... frustrated, I went to the 50 with the new very tight fitting loads... about 50% ignition... screw it.... back to 777.... I packed a can of that too... went bang each time I pulled the trigger... only issue was the crud ring... which I learned to deal easily with until BH209 entered the picture..... thought how it was a good thing that this happened at the range instead of during a hunt..... so without more consternation, I am going backward... and 777 will be my go to propellant... just to let you know also, that the only variable that I can think of was the newly opened container of BH209, it still had the seal unbroken under the cap... it had no clumps and looked just fine.... I made no changes to either rifle, breech plugs, vent liners or primers used... both my rifles prefer Win209's over Fed 209A and seal very nicely, do not soot up or are hard to extract from the bolt.

Hopefully, tomorrow will be a better day... now of to KP before the boss revokes my pass

Kindest regards,

TheMoose

[59sharps]

Beeing a "geezer" I have developed patience out of necessity over the years... but as my hero Popeye said, " I stands all I can stands and I can't stands no more!"... I've shot several pounds of BH209 since it came out and only previously had issues with one rifle... A Knight 50 Disc that would occasionally FTF only igniting part of the charge and you could watch the bullet leave the barrel... recently I revisited a couple of inlines with paperpatching knowledge picked up from Ron and Roger to fine tune... well, it all went down hill from there.... on a trip to the range last week my pet rifle FTF on the first shot... never happened before... so I removed charge and started from scratch... fired enough to get new scope on paper then switched to the Knight 50... about 1 in 4 were the old squib load thing from the past... thinking it was issue with loose fit I left the range and returned to the man cave for some changes to both bullet, wrap and wads to get a better fit on the 50... Today was full of optimism.. wrong thing to do... first shot on favorite rifle again, not even a squib load.. just primer pop... not my first rodeo... I had already dried the bore thoroughly and fired 3 209 primers thru the critter... dismantled it, cleaned it out and reloaded... went bang, but left a whole lot more residue than normal..(I'm anal and wipe between shots)... thinking it was primer issue, I changed brands... and all seemed well for a couple of shots... I was careful to load out of the newly opened(but out of my stash) can... remembering last week's episode had both older charges and new ones... then another squib.... frustrated, I went to the 50 with the new very tight fitting loads... about 50% ignition... screw it.... back to 777.... I packed a can of that too... went bang each time I pulled the trigger... only issue was the crud ring... which I learned to deal easily with until BH209 entered the picture..... thought how it was a good thing that this happened at the range instead of during a hunt..... so without more consternation, I am going backward... and 777 will be my go to propellant... just to let you know also, that the only variable that I can think of was the newly opened container of BH209, it still had the seal unbroken under the cap... it had no clumps and looked just fine.... I made no changes to either rifle, breech plugs, vent liners or primers used... both my rifles prefer Win209's over Fed 209A and seal very nicely, do not soot up or are hard to extract from the bolt.

Hopefully, tomorrow will be a better day... now of to KP before the boss revokes my pass

Kindest regards,

TheMoose

All I can say is nothing better than real BP.

[NSB]

Knight doesn't recommend using BH209 in this guns. A little research will tell you that. I've seen other people get the same result you're getting when they try to use it. I use it in my TC Encore with no problems at all. Different breech plug set-up.

[ShooterAZ]

I'm using BH209 in a T/C Impact, and I couldn't be happier. It is one flat shooting, hard hitting, clean burning, accurate son of a gun. Sorry it isn't working out for you in your gun.

[54bore]

Reading this (and others) makes me feel REALLY fortunate to have easy access to all of the REAL BP i can afford to buy. Thank you Buffalo Arms!! They dont carry ANY substitutes, only Real stuff, every brand, and variation.

[54bore]

If i were to HAVE to choose a sub, it would be exactly what Idahoron uses, Pyrodex P

[rodwha]

I'm one that greatly dislikes Pyrodex. It works fine and I like the smell, but the fouling has an odd almost sticky feel to it. I don't notice it much in my rifle but my pistols I can't help but notice it.

I also use my powder through my .50 cal rifle and .44/.45 cal revolvers and demand a higher output than Pyrodex P provides. I like T7, but usually use Olde Eynsford as it's cheaper.

I've not dealt with this "crud ring" in my guns. My percussion rifle, using Rem #10's has either not produced it or it's so minimal that it's not noticed (I swab my rifle every 3-5 shots). And I don't clean my pistols at the range and usually get no less than 6 cylinders full and often many more.

But if this crud ring is an issue I'd suggest trying Olde Eynsford by Goex. It should give you very similar results with the same volume of powder from what I understand. And it's cheaper.

[Themoose]

I still use Swiss & Goex in Flint & caplock. Only one place to get it locally. When I shot a lot BB ought a case and shipped to my front door...But that was like my hair line and athletic figure........A long, long , long time ago.

[tomme boy]

I've sent emails into Accurate about this several times and they never reply back. It is one of the worst subs made unless the gun is made just for it. What a joke!

[rfd]

i will not shoot subs as i think all of them are inferior when compared to any good real black powder - for me, there really and truly is nothing that can compare to real black powder for muzzleloaders and 19th century breech loaders. make mine swiss black powder 3f and 1-1/2f.

it is impossible for me to buy black powder in person as none is available within a hundred miles at least. this is where mail order is best, while mail order for bp still exists. buying in 25# lots typically means no shipping or hazmat fees. yer looking at spending between $400 and near $600. if that's way beyond yer budget, time to actively seek out locally minded gun cranks (clubs, ranges, etc) and pool together for a group buy.

[Squeeze]

Did you ever clean the carbon buildup out of the breech plug flame channel with a drill bit turned by hand?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Your breech plug sucks, plain and simple. BH209 is a very easy powder to shoot in an inline. With the CVA/ Traditions rifles I've shot the powder in, around 60lbs worth, FTF or hang fires are very rare and most of them happened at a very early stage when I knew nothing about it.

Are you properly cleaning your breech plugs flash channel with the proper size drill bit? Soaking it in solvent does not remove the hard nasty carbon build up in the breech plug.

[Rick Hodges]

CVA sells a special recessed breechplug for use with BH209...it is counter bored to reduce the distance between primer and powder. BH209 is notoriously hard to ignite and this is even worse in cold weather. I am happy with 777 but I rarely shoot a long string so the "crud ring" isn't a problem.

[Themoose]

I think some have missed my point... previously I had on one rifle that had an issue until I opened a new container of the propellant... I think it somehow was not up to par... but, I don't want to even worry about it in the future... as far as my "breech plugs suck" their design may not be up to your standards, but they were very clean, soaked in Hoppe's, scrubbed inside and out, soaked in acetone and rinsed in denatured alcohol(I did say I was anal about cleaning).. the vent liners were removed and cleaned as well... the ventliners were replaced within the last 20 shots so they were not enlarged, plugged or burnt out...I do have proper drill bits and the needle like bits to gauge when to replace them... again, one of the rifles never gave me a problem before.. I never shot 60 lbs, but did shoot at least a couple dozen 10 oz cans of it with no issues.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

you need to run a drill bit through that plug once you remove the vent liner. Even the liner could possibly be the issue if its not shaped correctly.

[OnHoPr]

If you are interested in shooting the PP boolits then give American Powder a try. When I was doing my Idaho Ron's PP Lee 440 gr testing it was the most accurate and cleanest burning powder of all the subs except Black MZ because I never tried that one. It was considerably cleaner and one ragged hole accurate @ just under 50 yds. But, that is the only time it has shined for me with the PP boolits and that give or take 70 gr of powder charge.

[M-Tecs]

4 1/2 pounds throught Savage ML & ML2, multiple Remington ML's with Savage breeches with zero issues. I have very limited use in sidelocks with 209 Magsparks. Again no issues but not really enough experience to comment.

[NSB]

you need to run a drill bit through that plug once you remove the vent liner. Even the liner could possibly be the issue if its not shaped correctly.

It's not designed for BH209. Drilling it won't fix it. The people who make the gun know what they're talking about.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Yes, using a drill bit to cut the CARBON build up out of the breech plug does fix it. Even CVA shooters and EVERY other muzzleloading brand has to use the drill bit to properly remove carbon build up from the breech plug. SOAKING in solvent DOES NOT remove it.
http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/breech-plug-cleaning/

[johnson1942]

when i got a cva inline i had to buy a aftermarket breech plug and then it worked perfectly. never ever have issues with the magsparks on the side locks. to day i went out on the deck and shot about 60 rounds of 45 long colt with 209 powder in them and cleaning the gun afterwards took only minutes. with the inlines you have to have the right breech plug for it. i would never suggest how to alter the present breech plug as it may make it dangerous to the user. cleaning out the flash channel with a proper size drill bit isnt altering it but just cleaning it. i could give suggestions on how to alter a breech plug but i wont, could get someone killed that way. im in the process of build a inline with a .357/1/15 twist barrel for target and fun. 209 with be the powder i use. again, got to have the breech plug made for it or it wont work.