(Ugly) Things I've learned about casting, a newbie.

[sawinredneck]

Many here know this and will bash, but being what it is, a lot of us are on budgets and have to justify every expense to our better halves, not always easy. So some perspective from a "budget minded beginner" if you will.
The Lee pro 4-20 pot, doesn't matter what you do, it's going to drip! I'm VERY mechanichly inclined, yeah, it's gonna drip, just deal with it!
Lee bullet molds, hmmmm. I always wondered why someone would pay triple the price for a bullet mold, I know now why!
Will they make a great bullet? Absolutely! And they will do it consistently, BUT, you will pull your hair out doing it! Getting the temp right, holding your tongue right to get the pins to line up, getting the nubs to fall off the sprue plate, I can go on. But I can seriously see the justification for a better mold now!
Powder coating, wow can I tell you how this goes wrong! DO NOT cook your bullets at 350deg for 30min! They melt!
Harbor Frieght powdercoat sucks! At least two coats.
Don't use the green air soft beads, they don't create enough static, regardless of the powder you use.
I'm sure most of this is covered, but probably not all in one lump sum! I don't regret my Lee mold purchases, I have three now, and I can make decent rounds out of all of them as long as I pay attention. The Pro 4-20, meh, I'm still on the fence.
Then trying to make rounds that cycle in my AR-10, well, when you call the Sierra help line and they laugh at you, what can go wrong?
Its been a journey, but don't give up!

[mozeppa]

uhhh.... no ....don't know what you are cooking them in....but ...they will not melt at 350 deg.

whatever oven you are using is going way over 350 if they are melting.

take out the rod from your pot put the top end of rod in a drill and use lapping compound on the other end and the hole. now spin it in the hole. clean it and you are ready to use.

and since steel will float like a cork in melted lead add a pound of weight to the top end of the rod. this helps stop the drip.

mine still dripped but only about one drop per 2 minutes.

[tsubaki]

Inanimate objects will tell me what I am doing wrong.

as long as I pay attention.

[Finster101]

I am using the same equipment as you and do not have these issues. I'm not flaming you but you might want to work on technique a bit.

[dilly]

Lee molds can be a bit squirrelly. It happens sometimes but not always.

Ideally, over time you will flesh out your hobby with equipment you like a little better. Maybe someday you will get a raise or will just keep adding the good stuff over time. I have an RCBS pro melt and even though they are quite a bit of money they are an excellent machine. I like to stay subscribed to NOE's specials. Until then there is a lot to learn and it sounds like you are on the right track.

As far as powder coating, I know that the lessons you learned are common knowledge on the PC board. The devil is in the details but they are all posted pretty much. Of course the thermostats on those ovens are wildly off. I've melted bullets too, and it's pretty discouraging. Perhaps you could do a bit more reading over there and it might pay off in time saved.

Still, it's kind of fun isn't it?

[BNE]

I had almost the same problems, but most of mine boiled down to my lack of experience.

Don't give up. Use the search function here and then post questions. Good people will soon help you out.

PS If you're melting Boolits at "350 F," then your oven is not reading correctly.

Also, try putting a desicant pack in with the green asbbs when not in use. Helped me.

[Half Dog]

I enjoyed your post.

[GhostHawk]

#1 good post. Don't get discouraged.

#2 I had similar experiences with a lee bottom pour pot back in the early 80's. I gave that one away. Still don't own one and probably never will.



For near 35 years my casting was done with a cast iron fry pan on a heat source. Kitchen stove, campfire, I've tried em all. But I got pretty good at running the lyman ladle.

And then one day 2 years ago my wife brought home a little Lee dipper pot that appears to have been full of nearly pure tin. Now I have a nice casting setup in the basement and can cast whenever I like without the cleanup the kitchen woe's.

On Lee Molds, Don't consider them a completed finished product. They are a "Kit" that with some additional work from you, and you learning their in's and outs will make cast boolits.

You can easily destroy them if you are not careful. But if you learn to recognise what it is they need they can be coaxed into producing good boolits. Heck some of them just WANT to cast.

Some are fussy.

Some need to be run hot, some cold, with many variations in the middle.

A little bit of tin helps a whole lot when talking about molds. Better quality bullets, life is just easier. But it does not take a lot. Wheel weights and or with range scrap with 1 to 1.5% tin is what I mostly run.

There are things you can do to make the boolits fly out of those Lee Molds.
Liquid Wrench Dry Lubricant is the one that works best for me.

A little twist of steel wool down the hole for the sprue screw will lock it in place.

Preheat the mold, either a hot plate, or dip it in the pot, ladle lead over it. Get it HOT.
Then cast, top and bottom, don't forget the sprue plate.

Lee 6 cavity molds appear to be a law unto themselves.
These cost more, but appear to have many fewer problems.
They still have their idiosyncrasy's, but fewer mechanical issues. But again, you do need to learn how to run them.

I am slowly changing over from all 2 cavity molds to all 6 cavity.

Boolits "rain" out of them.

[OS OK]

If you hang one of these things in the oven, 'you know they suggest using a convection oven', but if you put one of these in there it will show you for sure and certain that your temperature dial on your unit is incorrect. When it's figured out a paint pencil can remark the dial so you will know in the future when you bump it like I do...
Attachment 186138Then after you have done whatever your going to do about the valve leaking...usually it takes a good pot cleaning and a renewed effort in using clean lead and fluxing with say parafin...as sawdust will eventually find it's way to the valve after a few pots of lead have been cycled through...but in the end, if you hang a big old square nut...say 3/4" on the handle behind the knob, it will go miles toward keeping that pot valve shut off. You will still have to reach up with a stubby screwdriver to twist to clear and adjust the valve for flow but your pot will stop making those little sculptures underneath...(See the attached photo)


Then when I'm ready to fire the pot up, I'll put the selected mold on the hot plate and turn my 1.2 KW hot plate temp knob up to exactly 1/2 way. I know previously from using a digital temp. probe on a successful mold run with this particular mold how hot it needs be to run flawlessly...


Attachment 186140
Another little tip is to try to organize your work together in a single spot, don't need to much room as here...I pull those trays out under the pots and I have a tray for new boolits and one for sprue cuts, I'm a leftie so I keep the hot plate to my left and that little bucket with the yellow thing sticking out in the top left of the picture is where I put the dross off the pots when I skim...you know that there is tin coming out through oxidation so I save it and re-run the skim as I make up new batches of ingots...
(See the attached photo) But you still have to learn to hold your mouth right!

[Cherokee]

I want to hear more about Sierra laughing.

[GLynn41]

Sawinredneck-- hang in there -it gets better--as mentioned before -- I use a dipper too because of the drip-I have a 20# dipping pot----Lees molds will work -- --try not to slam them back together as this causes a wear pattern and keep the handles tight so one mold block doesn't drop down and then is forced up as they close-- and lube them--instead of the oven try water dropping them..-- I am with Cherokee tell us some more about sierra laughing you really sound like you have things going ok--

[TexasGrunt]

The green bbs work just fine for me.

[lightman]

Enjoyed your post! It brings back memories! Most casters or reloaders started off with small budgets. The drip you describe is common with Lee pots and the techniques discussed above will help. Same thing with their molds. Each cast differently and will have a learning curve. The whole casting game is really a learning curve! Hang in there!

[dverna]

It always frustrates me when people recommend a Lee mold to a beginner. It will be a **** shoot and beginners have enough to deal with. Same with the drip-o-matic.

A good mold mold has a better chance of working well, and a standard pot with a ladle is easy to use. If money is tight, you can melt in a pot over a camp stove.

Read the thread on Ben's Liquid Lube (BLL). It is a good way to lube, cheap, and idiot proof.

Start with a good alloy. 2% tin helps a lot.

I was poor when I started but had a good mentor who told me to buy good equipment....you will never regret it. But there was no Lee stuff 50 years ago. Started with an H&G mold for .38's, Lyman mold for the .308, Lyman furnace, and Star lubrisizer.

Don Verna

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

sawinredneck,
A good and entertaining post. I think many of us have experienced many or all of what you have lamented. I know I have.

Yeah, the Lee pot is prone to dripping, Keeping it clean (by using only clean alloy) solves most of that issue. Weight on the lift handle helps a lot as well. I always suggest to lap the valve mating areas with abrasive and a battery drill, but in all honesty I'm not sure much lapping is happening, but on a new pot, it should remove any leftover burrs...and on a pot that has been used and is having issues, it should 'clean' the crud out of that area.

[mold maker]

To disparage the LEE pots and molds, and then recommend a lube for which the ingredients are no longer available, made me giggle.
I started casting in the early 60s and there wasn't even a reloader near by to ask for advice. In the interim, I have had or used about everything available as far as equipment. I have made all the mistakes for myself and still learn daily. There are presses and tools of every color and description in my inventory.
Every piece of equipment has proved to be able to produce quality ammo. Some are more or less user-friendly, but without exception if properly used, they work. It's up to us to learn and accept the limitations.
Yes, LEE tools are of slightly lesser quality, but good enough. You don't ever get a Cadillac at the price of a YUGO, but both get you to your destination.
Best advice I can give a new caster is, seek out an experienced caster and ask questions, before spending your money. Take advantage of the mistakes he's already made. Let him show (not just tell) you the ins and outs. Buy the best you can reasonably afford, and learn to treat it with respect. It doesn't matter what color or label, it's your attitude and willingness to learn that makes for success.

[mdi]

I'm very mechanically inclined too. My Lee pot, that I bought 18 years ago has not leaked for many years. (I just looked at why a needle valve would leak, and corrected it. Although the valve didn't leak a lot). Every mold I own seems to have it's own personality, my Lee, Lyman and Lochmiller molds, and I just have to remember what mold likes what. Like you said, just pay attention and I'll add; research.

I read a lot about powder coating and didn't have too much trouble getting good, clean bullets (HF red is the good one, the rest aren't very good, never bothered with air soft BBs, adapted my HF tumbler to tumble bullets in a square plastic container, and a few other things.). My Garand functioned well with some green 160 gr. cast gummy worms...

One thing I learned that helps speed up my learning with anything new is taking notes. I have a 3 ring binder with notes and printed articles about casting, and a large section for powder coating. I like to skim through my notebooks once in a while to "refresh" my memory...

Just like any hobby, there is a learning curve, and you seemed to have passed the "hump" and are on your way to an "easier, softer" approach to your hobby...

[sawinredneck]

No raise in my future, broken back.
Im not giving up, not even really that discouraged, other than the powder coating. I attribute a lot of that to the black Harbor Freight paint I bough. (Flame on)
I've honestly had good luck with the Lee molds, as long as I do my part and pay attention. It's not the molds fault I don't get it closed properly to be fair. I warm the mold over the pot as the lead is melting, normally within two drops I've got good castings. But I can see why the better molds cost more!
The oven, I know the temps off, I've had good luck in the past, just cranked it up higher last night in an attempt to get a better coating. I got molten bullets instead, lesson learned!
As for Sierra, call them sometime, tell them you are trying to find a .308 load using the Lee 180grn mold AND you want it to cycle an AR-10. It was an interesting conversation. We both chuckled over the idea of 12grns of Unuiqe, as I'd just load 6grns in some 9mm, and settled on Varget. Yes, I've read BruceB's thread numerous times, but it's a little different animal and getting the COL right has been fun?
Ive read the stickies, I've read everyone else's mistakes and learned from them. This forum is the only reason I'm as far along as I am, so thank you all, very much for that! But this isn't something you read about then run out to the garage and achieve exclence at in an evening, it takes time, and a lot of mistakes, to get it right. I didn't mean my post to be disheartening, more tounge in cheek about the growing pains and learning curve involved. Maybe someone even worse off than I can read this, chuckle and figure out it's not so bad after all!
Again, thank you all.

[runfiverun]

I learned long ago to take casting and shooting projects on in little chunks then practice it over and over to streamline things. [what you gonna do throw back some boolits?]
once you got it your gonna move on and forget.
so write it down or your gonna struggle a bit again when you come back to it.

[kmrra]

mold maker I'm not disputing what you said about the ingredient[COLOR=#23475e] not being avaliable for Ben's Liquid Lube, But if you hunt you can still find Johnson Liquid[COLOR=#a04e40] Wax, I ordered 2 cans day before yesterday here



Dont know how much they have left , but its the cheapest I have found on line ....I figured that 2 cans will last me a while , as I plan on trying other lube and coatings later on ...


Disregard that link , I took it out , I went to the bank and stopped that charge ... I read on another Post where they dont deliver and dont answer the phone , I will try the substitute