New Army pistol selected -- Sig Sauer P320

[NavyVet1959]

I noticed today that the Army had selected the Sig Sauer P320 as the new handgun. One thing that I noticed in all the articles that I read about it was that it was available in two calibers -- 9mm and ".40 SGW". So, I start doing a bit of a web search to see what the 'ell ".40 SGW" might be. Found a lot of articles where they mentioned it being available for the P320, but no one bothered to question it. I can understand maybe ONE site making a typo, but THAT MANY?

Eventually, I looked on the Sig Sauer site for the P320 and I think I found where the error happened.



The font that they used for the "&" (ampersand) in this image looks somewhat like a "G". Whichever idiot created the initial press release probably misread it initially and every other news site just blindly propagated that mistake and no one knew enough about guns to question it. Maybe someone did think it strange, but they didn't want anyone to know that they didn't know everything about firearms and question this new caliber.

Look closely at the text under each cartridge and compare the "G" in ".357SIG" and the "&" in ".40S&W". Pretty similar... To tell the difference, you would actually have to know *how to read*.

LMAO...

[Scharfschuetze]

Glad to see the Army finally made a decision. The Big Army or Big Green can really get moribund with all the governmental regulations regarding procurement.

[Love Life]

Does this mean the Marine Corps will get the Army's Berettas? I kid, I kid.

I'll reserve judgement on the Sig until I actually shoot one when the Marine Corps gets the Army's used ones in 2020.

[NavyVet1959]

It looks like Sig might have made the actual metal trigger housing as the frame / receiver of the firearm with respect to the ATF serial number requirement. That seems to allow them to just produce different plastic handgrips instead of having some sort of contraption where inserts are added or removed to make it fit different size hands.

I still prefer a gun with less plastic though.

I was kind of hoping that maybe they had come up with a new .40 round. Maybe an official new caliber that uses .40SW brass, but loaded to 10mm OAL and pressure like some of us already do for our 10mm handguns.

[usbp379]

The SIG's frame insert is removable and can be swapped into a frame housing of different length or girth. This means the frame can be converted to accept a full size or compact magazine. Slides can also be changed depending on desired barrel lengths or calibers.

As an example a 40S&W in the Carry format (4" barrel full size mag) can be converted to a Compact by swapping the grip module and using a shorter mag. The same exact pistol could be reconfigured into a full size 9mm by changing the slide assembly and using the appropriate magazines.

Another benefit is the ability to repair a damaged firearm that would otherwise be rendered inoperable. If a frame on a Glock or HK (just for example) is broken or the exterior becomes worn from excessive carry the plastic exterior can be replaced for $40. Or the color can be changed depending on preference or need.

I assume the modularity could even include the use of other magazines at some point depending on the user's needs. It might be interesting to see a P320 that runs on M92 mags just as an example.

The modular design is an interesting concept and one that likely makes sense to a huge agency like the Army or maybe DHS. With that said I am not sure how much the average joe would make use of the modular concept. Will civilian shooters want several slide or frame assemblies or will they just buy another pistol?

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[osteodoc08]

Anyone know what the requirements are/were for the pistol evaluation?

Im surprised they didn't go with a Glock 17/19. The seals just changed from the P226/229 to the Glock 19.

When will the CMP start selling the M9?

[jmort]

Glock was considered and rejected, right or wrong. 9mm Luger seems stronger than ever in the marketplace after over 100 years.

[Tackleberry41]

As I understand it the 320 is just a striker fired version of the DAO 250 guns. The 250 was sent back by most agencies who bought them due to reliability. I made a trade for a 250 in 9mm, and got rid of it pretty quick, just was not a reliable gun. Had a bad habit of FTE, it would pull the case half way out, then leave it there to gum up the works on the next round. I was at the shop other day asking about a pistol, he handed me a 320, I handed it back just as quick, nope something else.

[TXSlade]

I carried the M9 for years in the Army, most of the problems people quote are stuff they "heard" from a friend. The upkeep on M9's is abysmal but they keep working, honestly they are fantastic weapons.

The truly biggest problem? The freakin grip size is too big for so many people's hands. Although I'm not surprised they chose the Sig over the M9A3, I think it was a financial mistake. So many of the parts swap over, training is basically the same, and the few negatives of the M9 are eliminated by the M9A3.

But since when has the govt. given a rip about taxpayer money?

[NavyVet1959]

As I understand it the 320 is just a striker fired version of the DAO 250 guns. The 250 was sent back by most agencies who bought them due to reliability. I made a trade for a 250 in 9mm, and got rid of it pretty quick, just was not a reliable gun. Had a bad habit of FTE, it would pull the case half way out, then leave it there to gum up the works on the next round. I was at the shop other day asking about a pistol, he handed me a 320, I handed it back just as quick, nope something else.

If the P320 has a true DA trigger pull (i.e. you can pull it multiple times to get multiple primer strikes in case the previous strikes did not ignite the primer), then that's a good reason to choose the Sig over the Glocks. The Glock fan-boys keep saying that the Glocks are double action, but they are NOT. A true double-action handgun will allow you multiple hammer strikes. You can short stroke the slide on a Glock to recock it, but that is not the same. At least with the M1911, it's easy to recock it, even with one hand. It looks like it has the potential to have a better trigger than the Glock.

[Love Life]

I carried the M9 for years in the Army, most of the problems people quote are stuff they "heard" from a friend. The upkeep on M9's is abysmal but they keep working, honestly they are fantastic weapons.

The truly biggest problem? The freakin grip size is too big for so many people's hands. Although I'm not surprised they chose the Sig over the M9A3, I think it was a financial mistake. So many of the parts swap over, training is basically the same, and the few negatives of the M9 are eliminated by the M9A3.

But since when has the govt. given a rip about taxpayer money?

Amen!! Issues due arise with the M9, but as you stated it is usually due to poor maintenance/no maintenance. I have personally seen 2 cracked locking blocks, and a cracked slide. The guns with failed locking blocks were put back in action by the armorer in about 5 minutes. The Beretta with a cracked slide had been in the inventory for a loooooooooong time and had a round count well beyond it's intended service life.

I love the Beretta and really think the Army I wasting a ton of money here.

[Bigslug]

If the P320 has a true DA trigger pull (i.e. you can pull it multiple times to get multiple primer strikes in case the previous strikes did not ignite the primer), then that's a good reason to choose the Sig over the Glocks. The Glock fan-boys keep saying that the Glocks are double action, but they are NOT. A true double-action handgun will allow you multiple hammer strikes. You can short stroke the slide on a Glock to recock it, but that is not the same. At least with the M1911, it's easy to recock it, even with one hand. It looks like it has the potential to have a better trigger than the Glock.

If you want to waste time on gambling that a second strike will fix your problem, feel free. Tap/rack clears not only the dud, but deals with the failure to seat mags or chamber rounds - it's a far better universal option.

Second strike, I think, is just an "invented perk" to help sell lawyerized DA/SA guns. The real reason for those triggers is to make sure the lowest common denominators don't fire until they really mean it. Only issue is the changing pull usually causes them to miss (at least) the first two shots.

[Love Life]

We don't even practice a double strike. Immediate action is tap, rack, bang.

[Bigslug]

Another benefit is the ability to repair a damaged firearm that would otherwise be rendered inoperable. If a frame on a Glock or HK (just for example) is broken or the extetior becomes worn from excessive carry the plastic exterior can be replaced for $40. Or the color can be changed depending on preference or need.

Of course, if the gun was made of STEEL, the need to replace a broken frame would be a lot less likely.

Where have you gone, John M. Browning
Our nation hands it's plastic guns to you. Woo woo woo.
What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson?
Genius John has left and turned away. Hey hey hey. Hey hey hey.

I really don't see the point to the modularity for either the military, or in a free country where you can own more than one gun. A Glock 19-ish 9mm handgun solves the primary handgun issue, the capacity issue, the special ops concealment issue, the mount a light on it issue, and the screw a can on a threaded barrel issue. All a lot of grips and slides does is create ******** about whatever the present format happens to be, and create a larger, more complicated list of parts - the compatibility of which will be a headache in itself.

Used to be, it was "This is the Army, so-jer, and this is our handgun. Learn to live with it, snowflake."

Now, it seems to be "Welcome, Princess! Our stewards stand ready to make sure there aren't any peas under your mattress."

[reddog81]

40 SGW - that's too funny. It just goes to show that most reporters just copy and paste their info. You'd think anyone covering the military's new handgun would question 40 SGW...

I talked with a friend yesterday who's a weapon specialist for the DOD and he thinks the SIG was the right move. The ability to lengthen or shortened the grip along with the ability to swap out slides and lengthen or shorten the barrel is vast improvement over the Beretta and the best option out of the ones being considered.

[NavyVet1959]

40 SGW - that's too funny. It just goes to show that most reporters just copy and paste their info. You'd think anyone covering the military's new handgun would question 40 SGW...

I talked with a friend yesterday who's a weapon specialist for the DOD and he thinks the SIG was the right move. The ability to lengthen or shortened the grip along with the ability to swap out slides and lengthen or shorten the barrel is vast improvement over the Beretta and the best option out of the ones being considered.

I noticed on the Sig site that they also sell the plastic grip frames to convert it to .45ACP. If so, that means that 10mm would also be a possibility. The plastic grip frames list for $44 on the Sig site.

As an engineer, I like the idea of modularity. That is what has made the AR such a popular rifle platform. With this sort of system, it allows more companies to make parts for the firearm without having the ATF-induced paperwork cost burden. This increases competition and reduces cost to the users. I see this as a potential good thing for gun owners. Whether it will work out that way, I don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the market warms up to this concept.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Before opening this post I googled what gun the Secret Service and the Texas Rangers were using, yep the .357 Sig in the Sig. I dunno why they chose that. Large agencies consider a one size fits all when making a selection, price, and bureaucrats are subject to nice sales pitches. If I were in law enforcement or the military I would choose the .45 ACP in a 1911. I did when I was.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I almost made a 45/40 S&W once. Started loading 40 S&W`s on my Pro-Jector press after I had changed dies and shell plate from loading .45 acp rounds. First 40 round deprimed and sized fine till I worked the cycle for a new case and belling of the first case. The ram did a quick stop when the case entered the bell die. As I lowered the ram I saw a 45 caliber bell on a 40 case. Somehow I had neglected to change the bell die out from .45 acp. The bell die for the 40 was actually in the next die hole on the press. Sometimes I `fly with eagles` and other times I `walk with chickens`.Robert

[NavyVet1959]

Before opening this post I googled what gun the Secret Service and the Texas Rangers were using, yep the .357 Sig in the Sig. I dunno why they chose that. Large agencies consider a one size fits all when making a selection, price, and bureaucrats are subject to nice sales pitches. If I were in law enforcement or the military I would choose the .45 ACP in a 1911. I did when I was.

From what I understand, the TSA chose the .357SIG for the Flight Marshals so that it could go through a seat back or even a passenger if necessary and still be able to take down someone trying to hijack a plane. As far as the SS and TR go, I suspect that they just wanted to be the "cool kids on the block".

[NavyVet1959]

I almost made a 45/40 S&W once. Started loading 40 S&W`s on my Pro-Jector press after I had changed dies and shell plate from loading .45 acp rounds. First 40 round deprimed and sized fine till I worked the cycle for a new case and belling of the first case. The ram did a quick stop when the case entered the bell die. As I lowered the ram I saw a 45 caliber bell on a 40 case. Somehow I had neglected to change the bell die out from .45 acp. The bell die for the 40 was actually in the next die hole on the press. Sometimes I `fly with eagles` and other times I `walk with chickens`.Robert

I did something similar once... I was loading .45ACP and a .40SW case slipped in and got a .45 bullet put in it. It basically made a rebated rim round, I guess. It probably would have even fired, but I didn't test it.