.410 3"

[Taylor]

I have been in the process of forming 3" hulls from 9.3x74r brass.I have a annealed them,but might have been a little squeamish close to the bottom.The bottom 1/3 is not filling out to my liking.

The gun is an H&R single shot.The finished load I plan on using is;

18 gr H4227
card board OP card
1/2" cork wad
11/16 shot w/ cork OS card and elmer's glue.
winchester LP primer

All this shows a perfect fit.

Now...
Like I stated earlier,the bottom does't seem to be filling out,so I got an idea....these have not been shot yet!

18 gr H4227
card board OP card
2--1/2" cork wads
1/2 oz or less shot
card board OS card and glue

My idea was to increase the pressure for better fill out.Now I am second guessing myself.What do you think?

[725]

I've never used 9.3 x 74R mostly because I've never run across any. Have use d.444 Marlin with success. Very interested in your results.

[Reverend Al]

I'll be interested to hear your results too. I just fire-formed several hundred 9.3x74R cases into .40-90 Ballard for my No. 5 Pacific, but I also formed some of them in my O&U .410 shotgun to use as "everlasting" brass 3" .410 cases. I had the same problem as you too and the bottom 1/3rd of the cases are not fully formed yet after the initial first fire-forming, but those were only with a powder charge and bulk cornmeal to the case mouth, so likely didn't generate quite enough pressure to form fully so they might expand further at the bottom with full charges? (I had the same thing happen in the Ballard and the .410 O&U shotgun.)

Let us know how you make out after you load some up and fire form them the 2nd time ...

[Taylor]

I think at this point..my concern is,did I over load the next test rounds?? I think I will weigh both the finished load and compare to the "pressure load".

Al,I have successfully re-formed 303 to 410 shells,but they are 2 1/2 and will not cycle in my bolt gun,which is why I want a 3" shell.I do need to find 25 more pieces though to complete a box.

Also,I am on the hunt for a sxs/ou 410 that ain't made in Turkey.

[trapper9260]

I had fireform the same cases as you in my Savage mode 22/410 and I had the same on the bottom of the case too.I did not heat them. Just load them by what is in another post and fire form them.The way it looks is that the bottom of the case is thicker then the rest of the case like other.Just a guess.

[bikerbeans]

The base of the 9.3x74r brass is undersize for a 410 chamber. If you can make enough pressure to expand the bottom of this brass you may not like what happens to your 410. If your FF brass will seal the chamber when fired I would worry about the undersized base. Good luck with your project.

BB

[cpileri]

I agree w bikerbeans. When I formed 9.3x74r for a 450 Mongo project, I saw that if I had enough pressure to form the bottom near the case head; it would be way over pressure for the 45LC/410x3" chambered gun. So I left it. I haven't had any problems w the brass.

C-

[GhostHawk]

Don't sweat the bottoms.

As long as you have say an inch and a half at the top that is fully filled out, smooth for shot string.

I would not be concerned about those bottoms.

I fire formed some .303 british that have done exactly that.

Myself I decided it was easier, and more fun to just shell out the cash for store bought brass hulls.

Just got 2 boxes of 20 ga for the wife's single shot. Time to load.

[Outpost75]

The bottom will not completely fire-form, but the upper 2/3 of the case will seal well, hold a full load of shot and be safe with standard .410 loadings. Proceed as you have been doing. All is well. NO need to increase a load which patterns well.

[trapper9260]

I have been usen the load data that is for plastic hulls and looks to work ok and not worry about the bottom part of the case.I am doing like Outpost stated.

[Reverend Al]

Al,I have successfully re-formed 303 to 410 shells,but they are 2 1/2 and will not cycle in my bolt gun,which is why I want a 3" shell. I do need to find 25 more pieces though to complete a box.

Also, I am on the hunt for a sxs/ou 410 that ain't made in Turkey.

I have done the same with .303 Brit cases and they formed perfectly, filling out right down to the rims. They form up a little bit short (about 2.22") for .410 2 1/2" shotshell cases, but they are perfect for my bolt action since it was made to shoot the straight .303 cases from the arsenal!



My bolt action is a Lee Enfield No. 1 MK III single shot smooth bore .410 Musket, which used the full length, straight .303 British case with a .410" round ball crimped into the mouth. Being smooth bore they can also be loaded with smaller sized shot, or even a "buck and ball" load just for fun. The magazine was removed on these rifles and a wooden block installed in the magazine well with a groove cut into the top of it so that a cartridge can be dropped into the action and the bolt closed.







My O&U .410 shotgun IS one of the Turkish made Zildiz shotguns and it is actually very well made and works just fine, plus it has the added bonus of having interchangeable choke tubes. The gun shop that I worked in for the last 12 years of my retail sporting goods career before I retired sold lots of them and we never had any trouble with any of them or ever had one returned for any reason. I just couldn't justify the high cost of purchasing a Browning Citori or Winchester 101 even at the prices they bring these days as used guns.

[Taylor]

I remember years ago those Enfields were all over Shotgun News.Wish I had bought one.OH well...

My 303's formed fine too,and like you said,just shy of 2.5".
I'm not in any great hurry for the double barrel,it'll show up some time.Most likely when I don't have any money.There is still s few Stevens 311's out there at a fair price I'm sure.

I weighed my components yesterday and this is the results:
My finished load -- .72XX grains
Fire form load----- .52xx grains

..and I thought that load would be too heavy and generate too much pressure,I guess not.I'ma gonna shoot'em. Hopefully on Tuesday.

[Taylor]

Went to the range this morning,not very productive I might add.

Some loads went poof and I had to push out the wads with a cleaning rod.
Some loads went bang like they are suppose to.

New primers,powder doesn't look or smell bad. Too low of pressure? Kinda stumped right now.
Increase powder? Change powder? Powder just not good for application?

[35 Whelen]

I
Also,I am on the hunt for a sxs/ou 410 that ain't made in Turkey.

Watch Gunbroker for a Richland Arms. I bought one several years ago and it is a fine little shotgun built on a small frame. Mine came with long forcing cones and I had it threaded for screw in chokes. Pure death on dove and quail.

35W

[GhostHawk]

Taylor sir, after doing extensive reading on brass hulls I found one consistent problem.

Because there is no crimp at the end, there is no consistent pressure when the primer goes off. Which leads to inconsistent powder burn giving you good rounds and squibs.

The people I have read about who had the best success all seemed to do a number of things the same.

A When inserting wads, compress them down into the brass hull HARD. Some used a reloader with spring and gauge so they could see the compression.

B Gluing the overshot card. Some used elmers lightly thinned, some the old original water glass, and some hot glue. Wax was tried but with poor results. I suspect a good stiff overshot card well glued helps develop that pressure.

C Powder choice is going to come into play here. I suspect a powder that ignites quickly and easily will work better than one that is a bit harder to ignite/slower.

If I were loading more than a few I think I would be looking at

Red Dot, Unique, Universal, Littlegun in about that order.

You won't find much for load data although there probably is load data for Lilgun as it was essentially developed for the .410.

Best of luck to you sir.

[Taylor]

Ghosthawk..

My first loads were with red dot.2nd --H4227

Both had wax overshot cards.Tomorrow I will head back to the range,but this time I went back to red dot and a card with glue.Now I agree with your observations,in that the wad column must be consistant and with the same pressure.However doing this by hand varies the results.I do not have a set of dies yet for my press..gotta wait on payday.

Of the 25 I am working on,most have formed and all would have,if I had stayed with a faster powder.But I tried the H4227,and it didn't work.So hopefully all will work out this week and I can get on to actual loading.

Thank you for your insite on this.You put things in order,things I knew,but didn't really pay attention too.Again,thanks..Will