My 1891 Engineer's carbine

[Buckshot]

.............This is the little scudder. It differs from the cavalry version only that unlike the cavalry carbine it will accept a bayonet. I bought this many moons ago from Empire arms.




It's 100% matching and has an intact crest. However it has lost almost all of it's bluing, and the stock has it's share of dings and bangs. In addition to that the stock has had 3 arsenal repairs. This one to the toe of the stock is tha largest. From what I recall, this imported batch all had some kind of arsenal repairs made to the stocks. I guess they spent a lot of time using the butts to drive grade stakes or something. This added repair piece has 2 wooden dowels from the bottom up into the stock. The other 2 repairs (done a bit nicer) is a dovetailed piece added behind the tang of the action in the wrist. The other is in the heel in front of the buttplate (more banging on something?).



The side mounted sling swivel/staple. In the right photo you can just make out the stock repair to the heel just ahead of the buttplate as a lighter bit of wood.



As you can see in this, and the above photo the rear bayonet mount doubles as the band for the sling swivel. This little guy has for sure been around the block a time or two. I wish I knew their history as I'm sure it'd be interesting. While the outside appears to have been treated somewhat roughly, the bore is in quite good shape, although the lands are noticeably worn.

[Buckshot]

The rear sight, and in the right photo a steel plate inlet into the underside of the wrist. I have no idea what purpose it serves?



An interesting bit of kit I was also able to buy was this canvas and leather scabard. I don't know if it was German made for the carbine or made in Argentina. Nor do I know when it was made, other then Dennis at Empire Arms said they were authentic Argentine military issue.



The rear sling staple matches the leatherbound hole. As you can see the front sling swivel in the previous photo, the scabbard was designed so the carbine's sling would serve double duty to carry the carbine while it was tucked away in it's scabbard. The drawstrings at the butt end are snugged up and then tied to secure the end of the scabbard.

While the lands are somewhat rounded and the throat and leade are of prodigeous length, the little dude shoots quite well. The barrel slugs .303"x .314". The 200gr Nu-Judge and the 190gr 311407 (modified) Lee group buy boolits shoot very well in it. While I wouldn't necessarily enter it in a CBA postal, I'd have no qualms taking it hunting as 1 to 1-1/2" five shot groups at 50 yards are easy to obtain. Trust me that a 200gr cast slug at 1800+ fps will make the forend leap up off the bags so I can only imagine what a 174gr jacketed slug at 2300 fps would do, as I don't plan on trying.

................Buckshot

[excess650]

The 1891s that I have seen all exhibited fine machining. I had the 'tween" length once upon a time, but really wanted the Engineer's Carbine like you have. Thanks for the photos.

BTW, a couple of shots of my '71 sporter on the singleshot board.

[dragonrider]

Wow, I think I could get to like one of those real quick.

[45 2.1]

The cavalry version has no provision for a front sling loop as they don't have the ugly bands up front. They are quite slick and neat and pretty accurate for a short rifle. Just right to carry. Aquire one while you can.

[StarMetal]

The cavalry version has no provision for a front sling loop as they don't have the ugly bands up front. They are quite slick and neat and pretty accurate for a short rifle. Just right to carry. Aquire one while you can.

Bob,

Are you positive? See attached:

[45 2.1]

Bob,

Are you positive? See attached:

I've seen about three dozen of these over the last 25 years along with the ones i've owned. None of them had the front sling loop as shown in the picture. The front band clamp screw was on the side also.

[StarMetal]

I've seen about three dozen of these over the last 25 years along with the ones i've owned. None of them had the front sling loop as shown in the picture. The front band clamp screw was on the side also.

I had one also and it was as you described. The Engineer Carbine I currently have is like Buckshot's. What's with the one pictured here? It's also strange that they would put provisions on the buttstock for a sling (they even have a blank with screw on the wrist for mounting a swivel there) but yet no sling attachment on the barrel.

[45 2.1]

It's also strange that they would put provisions on the buttstock for a sling (they even have a blank with screw on the wrist for mounting a swivel there) but yet no sling attachment on the barrel.

Cavalry = horse mounted. Big loop over the shoulder with one attachment to gun near back end was common.

[9.3X62AL]

The mainstay military rifle cartridges of the 1890-1900 period are all very capable game calibers. 7.65 Arg, 303 British, 7.62 x 54R, 30-40 Krag--ballistics aren't spectacular by today's standards in the era of WSSMs, RAUMs, SAUMs, and BAUMs--they just go about their business downrange in predictable and user-friendly fashion, tipping over deer and larger game whenever given the oppurtunity and shooting quite well on paper during the off-season.

Call me an antiquated throwback, but after the onset of the 250 Savage, 30-06, and 375 H&H, much that followed was little more than busywork and plagiarism--although the 223 is pretty efficient and affordable to run.

THAT should get the party started.......

[BruceB]

Dunno about the party, but I'll at least buy a round!

One of my long-term fascinations has been just how "right" those designers of early smokeless cartridges "got it".

As Al says, after the rounds he mentioned there's been very little "better" amongst the newer cartridges.

Barring the advent of the .222 and its numerous kin since the late '40s, there's been precious little that was more than merely incremental change. Better sights, better barrel technology, better powders, better bullets....yes, to all of those things. However, if the improvements are utilized in the cartridges of, say, 1890 to 1925, then those original cartridges STILL compete very well with the latter-day examples.

It's ALMOST embarrassing to cast a glim along my rifle racks. Hmmm...three .303s, a .30-40, an early Mannlicher-Schoenauer 24"-takedown in 6.5x54, a pair of .32 Specials, a .404 and a .416 Rigby (both circa 1910), a low-number 1903, a .270, a .45-70...hell, just about the ONLY big-game cartridge I shoot that's under fifty years old is the .338, and even it just squeaks under the 50-years mark!

We once had a very pretty Spanish M93 7x57 carbine; I don't recall what happened to it but sure wish I had it back again. My wife once bounced a 175 softpoint off the roof of our '65 Fairlane with it...the line-of-sight cleared the top, but the line-of-bore....well, you can guess. Nice groove.

Shooters are often reckoned to be among the most hide-bound and tradition-oriented people around. Maybe it's just that our stuff WORKS, and there's no good reason to change.

[Uncle R.]

Dunno about the party, but I'll at least buy a round!

One of my long-term fascinations has been just how "right" those designers of early smokeless cartridges "got it".

As Al says, after the rounds he mentioned there's been very little "better" amongst the newer cartridges.

I agree. As I gradually turn into an old curmudgeon I'm ever less impressed with whatever the latest gun rag articles are touting. A man could get along quite nicely with cartridges designed before WW1 especially if they're loaded with modern hunting bullets. The latest "supergoboomer" designs trade terrible efficiency, huge muzzle flash and blast, high recoil and outrageously expensive factory ammo and brass for very minor improvements in ballistics.
<
No thanks.
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I didn't always agree with the late Colonel Cooper but he was right about hunting cartridges. If you can't do it (in North America at least) with a good bolt-action .30-06 it probably can't be done. I'll add the 7x57 and 8x57 to that group as well - I like all of them. They're efficient and capable all out of proportion to their cartridge size, blast and recoil.
<
Uncle R.

[Beekeeper]

You always do this to me Buckshot.
Ever time I think I have my milsurpites in check you show off one or more of your beauties and there I go again, getting the itch for more.
SHMBO'd is looking over my shoulder and saying "No More you promised"

I'll sneak a look and try to find one when she isn't here!!

Jim

[abunaitoo]

I have both the calvery and engineer rifles.
Not bad condition on the outside.
All matching numbers.
Bore worn, but shoots cast OK.
Bad news is some yahooo had the bright idea to run a .308 reamer in it to shoot 308 ammo.
Bullet for a 7.65 is .311, bullet for a .308 is .308????
Would work, but not to good.
Stupid is as stupid does.
I attached a picture of the shell that came out of the calvery.
The engineer is about the same.
Good thing is I didn't pay much for the two of them.

[dualsport]

Nice! Thanks for the pictures Buckshot. I'm jealous. I have a '91 that's a tack driver with Sierra MKs. Unfrotunately somebody cut on it a little and dt'd it. I have a question, is it normal for the little handguard to be wired on? Mine is, the wire is in that little groove.

[Buckshot]

Nice! Thanks for the pictures Buckshot. I'm jealous. I have a '91 that's a tack driver with Sierra MKs. Unfrotunately somebody cut on it a little and dt'd it. I have a question, is it normal for the little handguard to be wired on? Mine is, the wire is in that little groove.

.............Yes it is.



As it is also on the M1909 Cavalry..............



And the M1891 infantry model.

................abunaitoo, I just checked Springfield Sporters as they used to list brand new M91 Carbine barrels (in the white) before they went out of business several years ago, and then restarted. However since their re-start I do know that they have a lot of stuff not listed that you have to call for. I snagged one of the carbine barrels back then and I think it was like $40? You might give them a call if you'd thought you'd like to put the carbine back as it was.

Beekeeper,
You always do this to me Buckshot.
Ever time I think I have my milsurpites in check you show off one or more of your beauties and there I go again, getting the itch for more.
SHMBO'd is looking over my shoulder and saying "No More you promised"

..............I try to be as helpful as possible to all mankind

...............Buckshot

[Dutchman]

Bob,

Are you positive? See attached:

hola Jose, que passo?

Take a close look here and compare to yers. What is the method of sling attachment on this genuine 1892 Ludwig Loewe carbine that's never been rebuilt or rehabbed?



What's different here?



This is a 1891 rifle. What do you see?



I tell you a big secret, mon. Your carbine is half-breed. It has a rifle stock.

I also have one of the canvas/leather carbine sleeves. I'll have to check the book to see if it was Argentine or German made. If you post carbine serial numbers here I can look up when they were shipped to Argentina. I have the Collin Webster book.

This carbine *was* mine. I sold it a year ago to finance the purchase of the milling machine. I still have the rifle that was also made in 1892.

Joe.. I think your magazine/triggerguard assembly may also be from an early rifle as it lacks the magazine lock. I'll have to refer to the Webster book later this evening.


Dutch

[excess650]

I would REALLY like to have one of those carbines in excellent condition.

In that I bought a RD and couple of NOE molds this week, I chose NOT to go to a gunshow where I might be tempted. I seriously doubt there would have been a '91 carbine as I've NEVER seen one at a gunshow.

[abunaitoo]

Thanks Buckshot, I'll check them out.

[dualsport]

Dutch, is that offer only good on carbines? I have what I think is an infantry rifle with the barrel cut back to the nose cap, losing the front sight. The rear sight was removed. The short handguard is similar to the one in the picture of the 1892 carbine but mounted back against the first barrel step where the rear sight use to be. The serial # is A7057, it's a Lowe, and all parts are matching. The stock is numbered identically to the rest. It does have front and rear sling swivels