Kings James Version

[TXGunNut]

I'll admit one reason I like the KJV is because the Bible I generally read was used by my late father in his later years of lay ministry. It's also the version I grew up with. I don't read the Bible as much as I should; I do something I call "random Bible study". Quite often the page I first open to speaks to what's on my mind, other times it gives me something to consider. This past week I had a particularly bad day and the bad aftertaste followed me home. The evening improved with a good dinner and a big mug of tea. Then I opened my father's Bible with no particular destination in mind and it opened to the first chapter of Job. Didn't take long to realize that my day hadn't been so bad after all.

[Wayne Smith]

Wonder what is ment by "all sects" as Henry the 8th only allowed the church of England. If this is not true, post links.

Scott Presbyterians - and that was a significant addition given their democratic governing. Yes, it was a political issue too.

For those who are interested I posted the reference for the book I mentioned in my earlier post.

[Blackwater]

JC, at that time, there were a number of divisions, each claiming THEY were THE right ones, and each had their own Bibles. They were the beginnings of sects like the Quakers, the Pilgrims, and others, and there was more than a little unrest caused by their bickering and competition for members and money to support their views. When any king saw stuff like this, if they were wise (and King James seems to have been one of the better ones in this respect) they are compelled to at least try to nip any big rifts in the bud, before they become wars. So .... he did as I described. That's my understanding, and I wasn't there, so can't give personal testimony on it.

Mostly, I just like the cadence and poetry in the KJV, and it's written enough differently from the way we actually speak today, to keep us ever mindful that it IS a translation, and this helps keep us mindful to keep searching for the meaning behind the words, rather than just taking it quite literally all the time. I believe the key to gleaning real meaning from ANY version of the Bible is a real, earnest and deep yearning for that understanding, and I believe it often has to be sustained over what can sometimes be a long time before it's revealed to us.

I also believe not one of us really has perceived ALL the meaning, or the COMPLETE meaning of it all. I believe there are many things contained in many single verses, and we probably just don't have the mental talents, as humans, to really understand it ALL. But we are bound and instructed to try, and it's in the trying that we become edified by it. Understanding for us humans, has never been a destination, but a process, and one that seems to never end. Whenever I've learned one thing, that gives rise to two or three new questions, and it becomes a geometric progression that I don't believe anyone can absorb in total.

That's just my view, and I'm open to any other input anyone wants to give. I have no corner on understanding it, and can only offer what I've come to think and see and believe from my own personal searches and experiences. That's all any of us can do, really, but some have spent much more time at it and with more talent than I have, so chip in if you have a different view. I hold NO beliefs, except in Christ, that are unchangeable.

One of the prime reasons I'm here and contribute, is to learn more, and hopefully better. How else can we ever expect to really learn, if we don't throw out what we have, to see how it measures up to what others have? And I don't care what another person believes, other than that they DO believe in Christ. The rest is just some sort of step along the highway to understanding more and better, and hopefully, more completely, at least in a comparative sense. This is what I think a real search has always been composed of.

But again, if someone else has a varying thought, throw it in here, please! How can we ever learn, really, if we don't test each other's mettle and beliefs? And my ego's not wrapped up in my beliefs. One of the prime traits that Christ tried to teach us was to be and stay humble, for I believe only a truly humble man CAN receive much of the message that Christ wants to give us. Big egos act as a fence, blocking the light from reaching us, just like a big, high fence keeps sunshine out of our yards at home. Christ tried His best to teach us, and we often create SO many ways to block ourselves from knowing anything but what WE have conceived. I want to know what IS, in reality, to the greatest extent I'm capable of understanding it. The awe and wonder of God and Christ and the Holy Spirit is grand enough to keep ANYBODY humble, if they really stay focused on them. That's my belief, anyway. Chip in with yours if it differs.

[Boaz]

JC ..you figure , not up to me but where you are lead . Not my call ..your call . But I love you .We all travel the same path .

[MT Gianni]

I believe Aramaic like many of the Eastern languages is filled with poetry. I find Wm Tyndale did a more than acceptable job of integrating the Books that became the KJV and the poetry that for me gives the Word flow. I'll stick with that.

[Boaz]

I'm bout to figure there is no universal message . Script , translation . Yea though they spread the same message ! Each must be the 'right' one though we know not . All say the same thing ? ...yea maybe we should argue with what we are 'comfortable' with ? Comfortable ! Is worth a lot !!
Do not deviate , do not try to accommodate another , don't believe they have faith . Denigrate them , persecute them , chastise and torment them because they do not read ...YOUR translation .

[Ithaca Gunner]

I'll just add, reading a 1611 version of the KJV can be a fun challenge, the KJV was updated in the 1800's to correct for the letter "jumble" that occurred about the time our Constitution was adopted, (late 1700's we adopted the alphabet we have today). U and V were reversed, F and S were also. Take the word, "lesson" for example, it was spelled "leffon", "unite" was "vnite". Funny how the mind so quickly adapts to these little differences and reading becomes smooth and effortless.

[retread]

I read the KJV at night before bed, but use the NIV for Bible studies beause it is easier for me when I need to read out loud. I like the two for comparisons also.

[Wayne Smith]

Slightly off topic - Years ago I was meditating on God's Infinity. If God is truly infinite ... then everything my poor brain can understand is one small corner of an Infinite God. If your corner is different than mine then we need to learn from one another, not argue to prove I'm 'right' and you are 'wrong'! God's Righteousness can be seen as that boundary between what is God and what is not God (sin). As long as we stay away from that boundary we are both 'right'. Doctrine helps us stay inside those boundaries.

[jcwit]

JC, at that time, there were a number of divisions, each claiming THEY were THE right ones, and each had their own Bibles. They were the beginnings of sects like the Quakers, the Pilgrims, and others, and there was more than a little unrest caused by their bickering and competition for members and money to support their views. When any king saw stuff like this, if they were wise (and King James seems to have been one of the better ones in this respect) they are compelled to at least try to nip any big rifts in the bud, before they become wars. So .... he did as I described. That's my understanding, and I wasn't there, so can't give personal testimony on it.

Sounds a lot like today with all the different "churches??"

I don't like "whatever" so we'll start up our own church!

I know of churches that split over nothing more than the covering a women wears!

We are living in a mumbo jumbo world, and if I don't agree, too bad I'll fix it with my own way!

[Blackwater]

Amen, JC. We have on too many occasions, and for far too long, split due to differing perceptions of some meanings, rather than study and discuss and work it out. NOT much like what Christ encouraged us to do! But .... I guess it reflects our "humanity" and our willfulness as such???

One thing I've noted, is that all these versions of the Bible seem to mean something to various folks that seems to be generally positive. Any time folks are enabled to understand The Word better, I'm all for it. As I said, I think it's that spark within us that perceives when we discover a real truth in it all, and the semantics, which is by far the biggest portion of "interpretations" (though not ALL there is to it, of course) really doesn't matter NEARLY as much as the purity of our heart in seeking the real and true meaning of what's been written for us.

We all have varying degrees of ability to learn from the written word, and this can vary widely from person to person. But that too, I think, doesn't matter all that terribly much. What DOES matter is the attitude and expectations we go into the reading. THAT, I believe, is THE greatest determinant of what we get out of our reading.

I also think that, no matter who we are and how much we've read and studied, we need to discuss it all one with another, in order to see things that others noticed, that we might not have fully "got." Little things DO matter, of course, and the differing translations do vary, and variances DO tend to threaten some degree of "danger," but if it helps someone who just doesn't like the KJV or any other, then I'm all for it.

We all, I think, "see through the glass darkly," and thus, will only know the REAL Truth when we've passed from this world and shed these very limiting bodies we wear here. That's my take on it, anyway, and I have no corner on Truth. It's just my perception based on all I've seen and learned in my time here. YMMV, and likely does. But the key to following Christ, I am more and more convinced, is that we all realize that we are one group, who worship one God, with one Redeemer, and we try to LEARN from each other rather than ARGUING the "small stuff" one with another.

My view is that we should each pursue the edification, as we were instructed to, and discuss and test it with that of others. In this way, we can identify any mistakes or shortcomings we may have, and "plug any holes" in our perceptions, should we identify any. Edification involves a lot more than just reading the verses. We have to see it at work in our lives or those of others to REALLY understand it, and get to a point where we can expand it, and fit it in with all the other stuff we have read and come to perceive.

There's enough there to keep us busy, and if we practice it, it ought to keep us from the error of needlessly and haughtily arguing among ourselves about who's right and who's "wrong." Would that we could learn THAT lesson, and practice it more often! That would be such a great thing. But .... I suspect we'll have to shed these mortal bodies before we can really get to that point???? Sure seems to be what our actual behavior indicates, on far too many occasions.

"Above all these is love," and arguing over perceptions of things we can't possibly, truly "know" doesn't look much like love to me.

[castalott]

I love the KJV above the rest... Poetry in motion to me... I am lacking as a scholar though.....

I am much amazed at the giants here in boolet knowledge that also have great Faith and Knowledge in this area.... It warms an old Sinner's Heart...


Dale

[LAH]

I love the KJ. Grew up with it. I've been preached to but a very few times from anything else. I study the KJ an hour or 2 each morning preparing my Sunday sermons. There are very few Churches I go in that use anything else. I do have a Living Bible from the early 70s & a NASB but seldom read them. Guess I'm KJ all the way. I just feel lost with anything else. The Bible that gets preaching duties the most is a plain ole Rainbow that belonged to my wife. It's like my sixgun, I know my way round in it.

[MT Gianni]

I'll just add, reading a 1611 version of the KJV can be a fun challenge, the KJV was updated in the 1800's to correct for the letter "jumble" that occurred about the time our Constitution was adopted, (late 1700's we adopted the alphabet we have today). U and V were reversed, F and S were also. Take the word, "lesson" for example, it was spelled "leffon", "unite" was "vnite". Funny how the mind so quickly adapts to these little differences and reading becomes smooth and effortless.

Some of that was holdover from Latin as Spanish written in the 1500's has the same issues. I believe the KJV did more to unify the English language than any other act. It is why we can read and understand Shakespeare and not Chaucer.

[Blackwater]

I've heard that poetic thing about Aramaic before, but unfortunately, will probably never have the pleasure of experiencing it. I'm just thankful for all the understanding I've been able to glean from the KJV. This universe and world is SO big that none of us will ever get to know even half its wondrous pleasures. But I'm satisfied and busy with what I DO have and know, and am just thankful for the answers I've found within it. Not to mention very richly blessed by it.

For me, it's kind'a like in the military, when we were told "smoke 'em if ya' got 'em." Whatever we have, we just need to USE it more, I imagine. It's surely that way with me, I know!

[Boaz]

WC Whit seems to have problems with the KJV , actually many seem to not be able to understand it . I understand to an extent . Old English is not spoken today but to me (may not be a fair comparison as I was raised on it) it just does not seem that hard .

[Wayne Smith]

KJV is not "Old English"! Chaucher in the original is Middle English (I have a copy, Middle English on one side, modern on the other), Old English is almost identical to Old German. KJV is old Modern English.

[Blackwater]

So many good points to be made with regard to the versions of the Bible. Let noone of faith, though, be sullied in their belief because of some pretty minor arguments over the exact meaning of any given word or sets of words in them. For me, a Bible is a Bible, and whatever variations there may be within it, are just more evidence that we CARE what's in it, and want to get all we can out of it. And if one person's education and training lets them have a preference of one version over the others, I see no problem there, but only an asset to us all. The more folks understand the Word better, the better off we all are. And as to gaining a "perfect" understanding of all that's in any of them, I doubt any of us mortals will EVER achieve that, so I try to keep my focus on what CAN be gleaned, and don't worry about the rest. I have a young cousin who's Down's syndrome, and she's a real, honest believer, and one of the sweetest and generally mannerly young ladies you'll ever meet. She obviously cannot know much that someone with higher cognitive abilities can. But the key is, she has ENOUGH. And if that isn't a miracle of a pretty high order, what could be?

I believe still, that what we get from any of the various versions of the Bible, depends much more on our attitude and real intent when we read it, rather than which of the many versions of it we have in hand. And THAT, my friends, is what it has always been about. It's WHY Christ came down and sacrificed His perfect self as an atonement for OUR sins. He was perfect, and thus, the only sacrifice that COULD be acceptable for all the sins mankind has committed for the past 2,000 years! None of us nor all of us together, could EVER repay Him for what He did for us, or even for the great advice and counsel and record He left us in the Bible. We could NEVER be worthy of what He did, but He did it anyway, simply because He and the Father loved us the way they do.

If one person has one preference, and another man has another preference, one that "speaks" to him more fully or better, then that can only be an asset to all of us. And arguing over interpretations CAN be instructive and fruitful, and can sometimes increase our understanding and appreciation of the message Christ had for us, but to argue over it in a struggle for predominance, isn't worthy of any Christian, and should be avoided, and abandoned if ever started.

This is what I make of it all, anyway. We argue sometimes, with nothing to really be gained even if we "won" the argument. That's not edifying, and steals from us the time we once had to spend in things that DO edify us. Wasting our time in such pursuits isn't a worthy pursuit of any Christian. Decide for yourself what "speaks" to you, and hopefully, they'll ALL have something worth while to say. it should, if only we're prepared righteously to receive the messages contained therein. So again, I think attitude is the real key to understanding ANY scripture.

Ever since the Gutenberg press was invented, and people could soon hope to have a copy of the Bible in their homes (often even if they couldn't read - at least they could let their kids use it as a tool in learning to read), the Book has been translated into every language in the world. And we all know that languages differ, and that there are always words in one that can't fully be transferred into the other. But don't let that concern you, for I truly believe, and think almost all will find, that the meaning BEHIND the words CAN be gleaned if only we're truly receptive of it.

Why does one woman, out of the three billion plus in this world, pique our interest so that we fall in love with her, out of all the others? I believe it's because at some moment, we're allowed to see them in a very different light, than the rest of the world can see them in. It's as if a portal opens up, just for us and us alone, and for the first time, we see that woman as she truly is, and not just the "surface" of her and what she appears to be like to everyone else. This, I believe, is a real blessing, and it comes from God. What else COULD it be? We do nothing special to cause it. It just comes to us. I believe much of the understanding of the Bible comes to us in a very similar if not the same fashion. I don't know exactly how it works, but I can see its results. And even science, the most limited and finite pursuit we have, recognizes results as a legitimate reason to infer the cause of it. And if it can't come from a finite source, it MUST come from a supernatural or as yet undiscovered source. So I think my belief in this is well founded, and solid.

Sometimes, when we've been sufficiently PREPARED, God lets us see more than just the surface of things, whether it be the woman we marry, or the meanings behind the words in the Bible, or whatever else He chooses to reveal to us. I don't think we can do more, on our own, that glean an approximation of what it says. Really understanding the Bible is a supernatural gift, and we all have that gift, just like all our other gifts, in varying degrees. Much may well depend on how well we prepare ourselves to understand it, but even my little Down's syndrome cousin can find more than ENOUGH to get to Heaven and change their lives, if they just let it do that.

So read whatever version you wish. I have no problem with that, even though I also have a preference, borne more of habit and tradition than anything else. The whole question that really applies is "What are you gleaning from it," whichever version you use. That's my take on it anyway. YMMV.

[LAH]

(may not be a fair comparison as I was raised on it) it just does not seem that hard .

My point also. It's not that hard. The word differences are points of study. And regardless of the language used to translate no one will really get what the Bible says without study.

[EMC45]

I like NKJV, NASB, and NIV. Blue Letter Bible online is an excellent resource that has all the versions as well. The wife got me a 3 version cross reference bible a couple years back. Cross reference 3 versions on one page. Really neat.