Herters 164 powder

[highwall3855]

I few years ago I was given 30 pounds (yes 30) of Herters 164 shotgun powder. I did get a one page sheet of shotgun loading data with the powder and have worked up 12 and 16 gauge loads and I am happy with them. 164 seems to be in the same burning range as Herco. That sheet also had data for the other Herters shotgun powders 160, and 162. If anyone needs that information I would be happy to post it. I would be interested in finding if Herters ever had pistol loading data for this powder in any of their reloading manuals. Since I have a lot of it that could be useful in loading 38spl, 9mm, and 45acp. Does anyone have old Herters manuals that might have this information?
Herters rifle powders were made in scotland and I have read that the Scott rifle powders are the same as the Herters rifle powders. If that is true I would think that their shotgun powders might have been made by them also, and if that is so, Solo 1250 maybe an updated 164. It might give me a starting point for working up some pistol loads.
Thanks for any information you might be able to help me with.

[runfiverun]

in the 12 ga herco would be a magnum powder.
it would have been used in the old 1330fps duck loads with lead shot and 1-1/4oz loads.
I'd have to re-look since it's been 30 years but airc 23-25grs was about the load.

if your data is more like 17-18 or 19-20 with 1-1/8oz at 1150-1200fps then your looking at more of a red/green dot speed powder.

[Loudenboomer]

I'm still using up my Herters 164. As I recall Factory hand gun data was unavailable. Burn rate is about the same as Herco. It seems to me to be bulkier. Shooting mild loads in the 44 magnum, unique always had the accuracy edge. I suspect part of it was the fact that Herters 164 meters only fairly well in my Dillion. In the 9mm I have very limited experience with this powder. With the J 115 grainers, because of the bulky nature of the powder I ran out of case capacity about the same time I could get reliable cycling. I'll bet it would do OK in both the 9 and 45 with heavy boolits but didn't try it.
All this being said, Herters 164 Has been excellent in the 38-55 and 45-70 with mild cast loads. A tuft of Dacron in the 45-70 made it even better.
Enjoy Your Herters 164

[wiljen]

Burn rate is slightly faster than herco in pretty much all loads. Best bet would be start with herco starting loads -5% and work up to herco max loads -5%. For the record, Herter's powders were Nobel made powders from Series 60. That series was replaced in the 1970s with a new series (80) so none of the current Nobel Data is directly comparable to your 164. Herters marketed 100, 160,162, and 164. 100 was a IMR 4198 equivalent. 160 was their version of reddot albeit not a grain for grain match, 162 was between greendot and unique in speed and 164 as you found was just a hair faster than herco.