Resizing cast from .358 to .356 without a press, just the die?

[Char-Gar]

After reading some of the replies here I have to shake my head. To answer the person that posted this thread yes you could beat a bullet thru a die and call it something you could load. Do you really want to? Wouldn't you like something fairly accurate to load and shoot? Anything can be done. Does it make sense to do so? My opinion here.... its not a very bright idea. As I suggested ....buy or borrow a press and use that Lee thing if you must. Beg or borrow some bullets and load them. Buy some at the gun shop. Please don't exercise stupidity when it comes to casting and or loading. If its worth doing isn't it worth doing correctly?

You sound like a fellow who had a father with a complete loading set up, were born well to do, or didn't start reloading until you had discretionary cash.

Some of us starting reloading when a dollar was as big as a wagon wheel,and we had to make do with what we had. That is not stupidity, it is just called getting it done with what you have.

[Soundguy]

Imho, I dont think the sizing will work a good, 'pounding' it thru, vs a steady pressure. Even a squeeze in an arbor press or vice would be better.

As has been said, new economy press 35 $, used economy press 5-20$

My first lee c press was 5$ used. Still in use.

[44magLeo]

I might suggest shopping Ebay. First thing to get is a loading manual. I think Lyman's books are a good start. They cover both jacketed and cast boolits.
It also has a very detailed explanation of the process.
Search used reloading presses. Then sort from lowest price + s/h first.
You can further refine by brand, by bid or buy it now.
There are old cast C press by manufactures that have gone out of business. These old press are very good tools. Just be sure they use modern style universal shell holders. Some of the older presses used shell holders built right into the ram. To change shell holders you changed rams.
Use a similar search for used dies, shell holders.
Lee makes a set of graduated dippers. Around $12 new. Comes with a slide rule to tell grains of powder for each dipper with a lot of different powders. Don't try to load max loads with these. Stay a bit low and you will be fine.
There are many ways to prime cases Lee make a very good hand tool that uses inexpensive shell holders. Comes with both large and small trays.
These will get you started. After you get a feel for it you can aquire more tools that can speed up the process.
Reloading can be a very enjoyable hobby in it's own right. Being able to tailor fit the loads to your gun for accuracy or a specific use.
Getting started with the Lee Loader is a good way to start. Stick with store bought bullets for now. You can buy cast bullet in many designs that work well in your guns.
Some even works in both guns.
Revolvers can shoot most any design, auto loaders can be choosy about shape.
Good luck and enjoy your new hobby.
Leo

[35remington]

The current Lee sizing kit in effect IS the old sizing kit with threads on the die and a flange on the punch to fit the press ram. It is still a die and punch when off the press.

The lubed bullet can easily be pounded thru the die with a plastic hammer. It sizes just fine with no harm to the bullet. Lee themselves recommend it.

I am shaking my head that something so obvious and effective has been advised against by the utterly unknowing.

Experience much? Apparently not.

A bit of advice.....never take the word of someone who has never tried something related to what you are asking. These guys have not or they wouldn't be saying it.

[6bg6ga]

You sound like a fellow who had a father with a complete loading set up, were born well to do, or didn't start reloading until you had discretionary cash.

Some of us starting reloading when a dollar was as big as a wagon wheel,and we had to make do with what we had. That is not stupidity, it is just called getting it done with what you have.

Actually my father started out with a primitive 310 I believe. I remember him trying to FL resize 30-06 with the hand tool. It didn't take long for him to sell it and purchase a single stage Pacific press which he kept until he died in 2013 at 84 years of age. I was born into poverty. When I started loading in the 70's I started with a RCBS single stage press.

One thing I did learn from watching my dad was to buy what I wanted the first go around instead of buying the low end item followed by the medium followed by the one I originally wanted in the first place. From 20 years of working in a factory first as a machine operator then a machinist and finally a quality control inspector is to buy something that will deliver the best performance possible and not waste my time in the process.

So, I would say I started close to the bottom with respect to reloading equipment. I did skip the 310 hand reloading ***. I started working in a factory for less than $2.00 AN HOUR so I believe I also was working when the dollar was as big as a wagon wheel.

With respect to sizing without a press....like I mentioned yes, it can be done. Why would you want to? I don't personally have that much time that I wish to waste it. I went from a single bullet mold and a pot and ladle to a Ballisti-cast Mark IV and someday hope to have a Magma production machine of some sort. A single stage reloading press to a Dillon 650 and hope to have a 1050 soon.

To me its all about time. Multiple sizing lubing machines so no setup is needed as they all are ready to go. Multiple tool heads and powder measures for the Dillon. Probably a second Dillon one for small primer and one for large primer before I buy the 1050.

[JimB..]

If I was forced to size without a press I would make a simple one from wood with a couple bolts. flat base, short riser so the pressure is almost all downward, and an arm hinged at the back, drill a hole for the die, let it float a little, piece of brass as a punch. Not as rigid as you'll want, but I bet it'd work.

Would be less expensive to find a mold/alloy combo that you don't have to resize.

[DougGuy]

All this talk about alternative methods of sizing is one thing, but the important thing is that we want ammo that is reliable, safely assembled, ACCURATE, and doesn't lead the daylights out of the barrel.

To this end, we say Fitment is KING. It will do nary a bit of good to size to .356" if you have a .357" barrel, you are simply asking for lousy groups and probably a leaded barrel.

In a *perfect* world, a revolver's dimensions need to read similar to a common kitchen funnel. Larger dimensions in the back, tapering smaller and smaller as you go toward the muzzle, so that every step of the way, the boolit is squeezed or swaged into a smaller and smaller area, so that it forms a good seal against the escape of gas pressure all the way from the case mouth to the muzzle. Starting with a boolit smaller than the barrel's groove diameter is not a good decision.

The same applies for an autopistol as well. The boolit needs to be .001" to .002" GREATER than groove diameter, and the barrel throat for an autoloader, or the cylinder throats for a revolver, need to be .0005" to .001" GREATER than the boolit diameter.

This is how cast boolits work best. They need to be sealed as best as possible all the way through the firing process, and the best way to achieve this is to force the boolit through a smooth and steadily decreasing in size path through the firearm's barrel and or cylinder.

After having said this, you might want to rethink your choice to size to .356" as most want to size to .358" and if that .358" boolit won't fit through the cylinder throats or plunk into an autoloader's barrel, then the proper fix is to ream the cylinder throats or throat the barrel so that it will freely accept a .358" boolit. You will have MUCH better results all the way around if you start off on the right track.. I do hundreds of barrels and cylinders for shooters every year, and there are many on this forum who can attest to the improvements gained after properly sizing cylinder and/or barrel throats for .358" boolits.

[JimB..]

Yes to everything DougGuy said. Obviously the last thing you want to do is invest in, or Jerry-rig, a solution that doesn't solve your problem or for which you don't have a problem. I just liked the challenge of designing a nearly free press having made the assumption that you do need to resize.

[35remington]

The OP asked about sizing without using a press because he did not have a press, so that covers why he would "want to." It is in fact just about as fast to do it off the press as if it was press mounted.

All the replies about sizing using a hammer to run the bullet through the die being substandard in results have been utter nonsense and completely false. The advice is contrary to actual results.

Nothing is more worthless than advice from those that have never done what was asked about.

Instead.....the OP gets advice it isn't worth doing unless he shells out a bunch of cash to do it first class. Never mind he can't produce ammo very fast with his loading setup and has no need to spend a lot of money. And never mind his proposal will not cause any additional cash outlay over alternatives down the road.

Amazing. This is more a disservice than "advice."

[Soundguy]

I can guarantee you that extended hammering on the plunger base that normally fits the press ram like a shell holder will mar it.

And that's not a guess.

[35remington]

Take it from a guy that has done it. if a plastic hammer is used the part that fits in the press is not harmed at all. Keep the steel hammers away. Use your brain.

Sheesh.

[Soundguy]

Hammer was mentioned, some newbie reading this will drag out grandads' framing hammer..

I am using my brain, I'm forseeing a problem with a pist that needed further clarifying.

Why so rude with your comments? Bad day ..again?

Takes a gentleman to be civil...

[35remington]

What is making me admittedly bit uncivil is I don't usually see such utterly horrible advice here. Usually you can chalk up varying advice to difference of opinion but not here....no experience at all is being used as a substitute for a valid experience based opinion. I can see this "no experience" is so from the notable lack of accuracy in the responses.

Using a plastic hammer is flat common sense and it was mentioned earlier to boot. Who hammers steel with steel and expects no harm? If harm occurs get another punch and don't do it again.

Sorry. Yes I am cranky. This thread earned it with more apologies for my crankiness.

Rarely do I see a sensible question, with such a great idea advanced by the OP so flatly and wrongly slapped down by the unknowing. Let the guys with experience using such tools answer next time. His entirely sensible reasoning for asking the question was completely dismissed as not knowing what it was all about. Suppositions rather than facts were advanced about how well such off press usage actually works.

His proposed use of a sizing die off press is entirely consistent with his current equipment and is in fact faster in production than he needs.

This is something that needed to be acknowledged from the get go. Yet postulation from those who do not and have not done it abounded anyway.

[Soundguy]

Post 7 is the first post mentioning hammer, and it doesn't specify size, type or material.

Post 12 mentions hammer/mallet, and then says " Preferably" wood or hard rubber. ( preference but not exclusion to non mentioned materials. )

This is why I pushed for clarification on terms. In 5 years Joe newbie will read this archived thread, read down to #7, and smile, and run off with his gem of knowledge, and pound his punch the with a framing hammer with non skid face, and after the first hit, will leave dimpled pricks all over the punch base.

Seen similar issues with vauge explanations..

[35remington]

And if he's paying attention, he won't hit it a second time. Since we have mentioned softer materials for the hammer you can dismiss that concern since it's been mentioned multiple times now.

My point about the utter twaddle printed as information here still stands. A whole load of people who have no knowledge or usage of the Lee sizing kit in the manner asked about have postulated on the subject and got it terribly wrong.

This was a disservice. Is it too much to ask that one actually does something and has a valid opinion before saying it will or won't work well?

[Soundguy]

I dont read minds, nor do I try. Speculation on what a particular group of people know or don't know, or what they have or havnt done is tricky territory.

Someone with experience on a topic, ( bad experience? ) yet poor communication skills, may come off as ignorant on a subject.

That's why clear, concise posts are best. Dont leave anything to the imagination. In other words.. Lil warranties. Express, dont imply.

[35remington]

We should try not to pass off opinionated guesses based on not using a tool as described as actual useful information.

This is a basic requirement for helping someone with their choice.

I can tell you from the responses here a number of people don't know much yet aren't afraid to give advice anyway

[6bg6ga]

I'm kind of wondering here if a guy doesn't have money for a press how are they going to come up with a die to push the bullet thru to size it? Got it.... drill a hole in the top of dad's metal bench top take his borrowed plastic mallet and drive the bullet thru the hole.

[Soundguy]

I'm guessing that if you can't afford a 15$ used press and a 25$ die.. How are you buying other shooting supplies?

If an arbor press was already owned, that would open up some possibilities. Heck.. Vice.. Or torch, drill n welding.. Dont have to look pretty.

[michael.birdsley]

Lee loader? No, lee zamac 'c' press? Sure

This is what I started with The lee C press. Had the local gun shop order it for me for $28.99 saved shipping too. Still the only press I have. It is not glamorous by any stretch of the imagination but, does everything I need it to including sizing boolits. For the OP check out the lee reloading and cast Facebook page. Sometimes people sell things cheap on there.


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