fate, the opposite of faith.

[johnson1942]

i want to start a discussion on fate, the oppossite of faith. im going to walk through some things so it is clearly understood. christians practice faith but many dont understand it. muslims practice fate and never ever faith. fate come out of very old religions that go way way back and they are ungodly religions. fate is this. what ever happens to you, you are stuck in that situation and can not relieve it. faith is this, when the situation comes to you you can pray and God can relieve and change that situation. fate is with out hope and Faith is with hope but not only with hope, real results of that hope. when someone who is a christian lives a life of never ever praying about situations for them selves or others and just saying its Gods will they are living a life of fate, not faith. faith is taking the examples of God and Christ and moving on them in prayer and real action. the action is the prayer and God does the rest. their are even christian churches that practice a thing called self flagilation as a part of their service. self flagilation comes out of fate. they dont whip them selfs but they say over and over how bad they are and dont deserve what christ gave them. they never even move onto the gift of salvation and accept it. in spain they even practice physical self flagilation which again,it comes out of fate. Faith is freedom and fate is slavery. their it is christians, live free and practice faith and give up any fate type things you have in your life. we are not muslims, we are christians.

[Char-Gar]

Many years ago, E. Stanley Jones wrote a book entitled "The Way". Before followers of Christ were known as Christian, they were called followers of "the way", because Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the light.

Jones posits that the universe was designed by God operate in a certain way, that way being Christ. If a person does not follow Christ and his way of living, they are rubbing the fur of the universe in the wrong direction. Do that and the person will get consequences. One the other hand, if one is a follower of Christ, they are stroking the fur of the university in the right direction and will get results. So we can get either results or consequences, the choice is ours.

In my 45 years as a practicing Christian, I have found nothing that would indicate that Jones is wrong. But my entire experience tell me he is right. For me, this is one of the foundational principals in understanding and living the Christian faith. It really is just that simple.

[Ickisrulz]

Many years ago, E. Stanley Jones wrote a book entitled "The Way". Before followers of Christ were known as Christian, they were called followers of "the way", because Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the light.

Jones posits that the universe was designed by God operate in a certain way, that way being Christ. If a person does not follow Christ and his way of living, they are rubbing the fur of the universe in the wrong direction. Do that and the person will get consequences. One the other hand, if one is a follower of Christ, they are stroking the fur of the university in the right direction and will get results. So we can get either results or consequences, the choice is ours.

In my 45 years as a practicing Christian, I have found nothing that would indicate that Jones is wrong. But my entire experience tell me he is right. For me, this is one of the foundational principals in understanding and living the Christian faith. It really is just that simple.

I believe this is why you will see non-Christians who live successful lives and Christians who have nothing but problems. Anyone who lives their life in accordance with the practical guidance presented in the Bible will be successful. People who do not will have problems. I only mean issues dealing with hard working, caring for your family, avoiding excesses and watching out for your neighbors. I don't mean issues of faith and obedience to the Gospel.

[Char-Gar]

I believe this is why you will see non-Christians who live successful lives and Christians who have nothing but problems. Anyone who lives their life in accordance with the practical guidance presented in the Bible will be successful. People who do not will have problems. I only mean issues dealing with hard working, caring for your family, avoiding excesses and watching out for your neighbors. I don't mean issues of faith and obedience to the Gospel.

Jones was a Christian and would say that is faithful living that produced results and not ethical living. Neither Jones, nor I can separate faith in Christ from living the faith, in all it's fullness. The power to live the Christian faith comes from Christ living in us. Many may admire the ethical living of Christ, but only those with Christ in their lives can pull it off. I will fully admit that many people want to be called Christian, but want little or nothing to do with living the Christian faith. How we regard these people has always been perplexing. For my part, I don't worry or even think much about them, just leave them up to God. That is His business and not mine.

[Blackwater]

Great post and excellent responses. Again, "fate" is one of those words that can be used and sometimes misused, or used when really meaning or substituting for another. For example, I believe that some people, like Patton, Billy Graham, and folks who've risen to levels of greatness in service to us all, had what some call "fate," but Christians call "God's plan for them." Only a minor point, to be sure. English is the language with the most words in it to ever exist on earth, about a million according to one scholar, and some 4 million if we include technical and chemical words and names. Nobody can know them all. So ... we often improvise, and as long as we stay in context, in a small group, the word has meaning and use. Get into a larger group, though, and there can be those who hear what you say, but can't quite get what you mean. This is one of the things that makes religion and politics so contentious. What a word might mean to one may be a bit or even significantly different for another. And oft times, we argue more over semantics than about real principles. It seems to be a trap ol' Satan has laid to separate and weaken us as a group. That's my take on it, anyway.

I come here mostly to learn, and to find new perspectives I had simply never found or gotten around to seeing. And everybody here contributes regularly to that. It's really true, usually, that "two heads ARE better than one." Thanks for a great post, Johnson, and all the great commentary. This is MEAT, not milk, and we all need all the real meat of our Faith we can get. Thanks.

[1johnlb]

People are a lot like animals, you can herd them up and they'll begin to go with the flow, but real Christians have His Spirit. His Spirit thus far in my walk causes us to go against the flow and it sometimes seems to me I'm all alone when all of a sudden you see others going the same way, against the flow.

At the beginning of my walk I was having trouble trusting His Spirit that was working in me and was trying to go with the flow following the pastors. As I was riding down the road then, I was going past a pumpkin field when the Spirit began dealing with me. He said, " if a pumpkin* grows in a field then the next generation comes from its seed the next year, unless the farmer puts something in that field, the next generation will never grow bigger than the previous." Now I know nothing about growing pumpkins, but understood perfectly what He was telling me. Every generation looses something and gets smaller and smaller until it finally dies out or changes into something different. But when you follow Him, you must be lead by His Spirit.

Right or wrong, in my opinion to many Christains are trusting in man, instead of God. I heard a very good teaching from a pastor Dr Michael Yussef of leading the way ministries, about the profit mahammad. Mahammid started out teaching the laws of Moses then teaching Jesus Christ and after growing to a great following changed his teaching and writing the Koran and set himself above Christ. Just like Jesus's prophecies. There is a lot of good teaching right there just about the pitfalls of following man in fate instead of having faith.

[Blackwater]

G K Chesterton once commented that even a dead thing can go with the river's flow. It takes a living thing to swim against the current.

[buckwheatpaul]

johnson1942, I have seen many people die. To a person those that believed in God, faith, were not concerned and worried about their here after. Those that were not true believers were uncertain and fearful. I have faith and refuse to accept fate as my ruler.

[dverna]

Only a fool believes in fate. It is possible that some do not accept that actions and words have consequences, but that is not fate. It is an excuse for not accepting responsibility.

Faith is acceptence that we cannot explain or prove everything.

Don Verna

[jmort]

God has a plan. We miss it at times, but get back on track and follow the way God has made. Great thread.
These verses have always blessed me
https://www.openbible.info/topics/th...god_has_for_us

[johnson1942]

buckwheatpaul, you and i have many things in common, one is we both have been there when many humans died. i agree with you on how many meet the end. on the dark side i have seen those who are not saved taken over by dark spirits. one old man when i was a younger nurse was completely taken over by dark spirits. he would not let me in his room and to take care of him and the dark spirits spoke out against me. at the end he saw them coming toward the end of his bed to grab him by his feet and pull down below. he was in great fear then he died. on the other hand i have had true belivers who looked into to glory and say ive got to go now. Don, i really like the way you said it about fate. only a fool believes in fate. it is so sad that nations are devoted to a false moon God and fate is the way to follow him. a dark cloud has taken over their minds and a zeal from satan has overcome them. fate is a easy religion to follow, so narrow that it is like wearing horse blinders. Christ sets one free and there are no blinders.

[dverna]

Jmort,

Thank you for the link

Don Verna

[Blackwater]

Fate implies an "accident." God's plan is SO different from an "accident." We can plan all we want, and desire what we may, but God's plan will be fulfilled, or we'll suffer for our obstinance in following it. He HAS to "win" in order for us to ever find real "happiness," which I prefer to call "satisfaction." But it's really just the fulfillment of God's plan for us. He gave us a free will to do what we wish, and that's what so often leads us astray. Is there anyone among us who hasn't strayed from time to time? But He's always faithful to provide the influences we need to curb our desires, and bring us back toward His plans for us. It's those who continue to stray, willfully, who will and can never reach the "happiness" they seek. Satan has them convinced that if they'll just follow him, they'll find the "nirvana" they seek so frantically. But Satan is a mocker, and always has been, and he's NEVER been known to be faithful. He just wants God to NOT have us! Quite a different and diametrically opposed principle than the one God works on. He knowingly and with malice does all he can to get us to not know God, and to set himself forth as the only way to find the glee that so many call "happiness." But true happiness is a much quieter, more peaceful and serene thing than what Satan could ever offer. But he's very good at using what tools he has to keep people from knowing God, or from knowing Him more fully and completely. Fate is Satan's forte. True plans for us is God's. It's just that simple.

And to accept God's plan for us means we have to set His will ABOVE our own imaginations and aspirations and wills. And therein is where that free will thing always seems to crop up, and despoil our lives when we follow our own wills, rather than His. His may seem plainer and much lower level than our aspirations might be. But if we follow our own aspirations, He'll wind up bringing us to where we were meant to be, or we'll wind up very frustrated and UN-happy! It can't work any other way, really. I had to learn that the hard way. We may have our plans, and it's good to have plans to a certain extent. But when God has a plan that runs counter to our own, His way MUST prevail, or all we'll ever find is frustration and unhappiness. Funny how that works, isn't it?