Dangerous game slug mold?

[Geoffrey]

Hi folks, it's been a long time since I was on here last.

ive got a shotgun again and want to start casting and loading again.

I'm interested in loading my own dangerous game ammo for woods protection up in Northern Alberta.

I've done some searching and saw an old post on here for a dangerous game slug mold but I don't think the molds are still being made?

What I'm hoping to find, but might be asking too much, is a mold that I can load with materials that are locally available as our online options are much slimmer here than the US. Locally it's mostly shot shell loading components. So I'm curious if there is a good slug mold for loading dangerous game rounds that works with commonly available components.

If not I'm still interested in a good mold as I have hundreds of pounds of both clip on and stick on wheel weights and I'd like to start casting slugs again.

Thanks

[jmort]

I think Miha still has the 525 grain Lyman molds available from the last group buy. A Tri-Ball stack of .600 balls is around 1,000 grains of problem solving terminal effect. A single ball around .680 will work well. I believe Miha is going to have a round ball mold group buy shortly.

[5Shot]

If you are talking about the Breneke style slugs, that was from Captain Morgan IIRC. He was doing that only for his own use. It was a really cool project.

[Geoffrey]

Thank you both.

When I did a google search this one came up. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...740-Gr-HB-slug

[longbow]

Are you talking smoothbore or rifled gun. it makes a big difference. If rifled gun then Accurate Molds has a pretty good selection of solids that would fit your need I am sure:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=17

Pages 17 and 18 have a large selection of 12 ga. slugs for very light to very, very heavy.

If smoothbore then the pickings are a little slim with regular commercial moulds unless you want round ball. A hard round ball should be a pretty effective projectile on most critters if launched at 1500 or so FPS. Downside is that they are not choke friendly if that is a concern and good accuracy much past 50 yards becomes somewhat iffy. With good loads you can probably expect hunting/defense accuracy to 60 or maybe 70 yards. If that's all you need then a round ball is an easy choice. 0.678" RB moulds are sold by Lyman and RCBS and they fit perfectly in a shotcup. 0.662" are not bad either though slightly small.

For a commercial slug mould the Lyman sabot slug is likely your best bet and it will work in both smoothbore and rifled gun. The Mihec clone would be even better as his moulds are works of art and he makes that style in both a wad slug and full bore.

The 740 gr. ACE slug not only isn't available anymore but it is not suitable for smoothbore ~ not enough hollow base.

turbo1889 had a couple of 12 ga. moulds made by Brooks that are nice designs though they are custom or at least semi custom so will be fairly expensive. I have a drawing of his 10 ga. version which I scaled down to 12 ga. I could have sworn he posted a drawing of the 12 ga. slug but I couldn't find it. I am sure Brooks can reproduce it it you want. turbo's slugs were for smoothbore but being bore diameter should work in rifled gun as well.

Another thing to think about is load data. There is quite a bit of reloading information for slugs up to about 1 3/8 oz. but much heavier than that and slug load data is scarce. There are a few here like Greg Sappington and turbo who have developed loads for very heavy slugs and of course Ed Hubel who is in a whole different league with his loads.

Since the 0.662" and 0.678" round balls are roughly and ounce and about 1 1/16 oz respectively in pure lead and somewhat lighter in wheelweight alloy there are lots of slug loads that can be used.

Another round ball option is the Lyman 0.735" RB mould. I got very good accuracy from mine... again for 12 ga. and not choke friendly but easy to load and quite accurate to at least 50 yards. These weigh about 580 grs. in pure lead so a substantial payload.

Also there is a lot of load data for the Lyman 525 gr. sabot slug. Of course I am assuming you are wanting slugs for 12 ga.?

The other option is to buy factory loaded Brenneke slugs or Gualandi DGS slugs for your defense loads then buy a Lyman sabot slug mould, Lee Drive key slug mould or round ball mould for "plinking".

Longbow

[Geoffrey]

Thanks Longbow, I will be using a 14" smoothbore barrel. I'm not sure what the choke is but can check with some calipers when I get back.

I am looking for something for close range work, so accuracy under 50m is fine.

I already have a Lee 1oz mold for my plinking ammo.

The Lyman sabot is one I came across but wasn't sure about for big bears and cats.

I have some factory loaded Brenneke slugs too, was thinking I'd like to try loading a dangerous game round so I can tune the point of aim and point of impact and fine tune the powder charge for more accuracy.

[longbow]

I have not used them on any game dangerous or otherwise but have launched a lot of round balls downrange and through blocks of wood and such. A hard ball is pretty impressive in penetration.

The very large meplat on the Lyman sabot slug maybe detrimental to penetration in a really large mean critter like a grizzly. If cast of wheelweights it may hold up and penetrate, I am really not sure. Maybe someone has shot something large and can comment.

However, I do know a hard round ball is hard to stop.

Some like heavier and I know Greg Sappington had a 1000 gr. slug mould made for big bears but that is for rifled gun.

I have some of his 800 gr. (IIRC ~ but heavy anyway) foster slugs. I used a heavy birdshot load recipe using Blue Dot when I loaded those up. I didn't get very good accuracy though. Seems to me they were sized a bit small for my gun. I'd have to check. They are hard cast and I am sure would penetrate very deeply. I still have a few I could send you if you want to try them but Greg has the mould.

If you have a lathe or access to a lathe it is pretty easy to make a push out mould (similar to the old Ideal Cylindrical Moulds) that is adjustable for weight and depth of HP pin. I've had as good or better results from my home made moulds as commercial moulds for smoothbore.

Those and round balls have provided good groups of 3" to 4" at 50 yards. That is plenty good enough for hunting or defense.

In fact a good load is the 0.735" round ball load I made up using 2 3/4" Fiocchi hulls, 38 grs. of Blue Dot, plastic gas seal, 1/2" hard card wad, a nitro card wad or two to get crimp height then a wheelweight 0.735" RB and roll crimp. I based my load on Precision Rifles pressure tested load for a 610 gr. groove diameter solid slug using up to 44 grs. of Blue Dot but my shoulder gave out at 38 grs. No signs of pressure, just lots of recoil in a light single shot gun.

I prefer loading the 0.678" RB's in shotcups though, much quicker to load and they are plenty accurate.

Another thought are the Dixie Tri-Ball loads which are three 0.600" balls in a 3" hull James Gates posted load data for those so a search will find it plus I saved it for future if you are interested. That could well be a better load than a single slug for defense.

Lots of things to look at.

Longbow

[jmort]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Ball-Revisited!

[Geoffrey]

This is the slug slinger. Need to be refinish it and then it'll be good to go.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It isn't that big a problem, since one saving grace of dangerous game since the pterosaurs gave up swooping, is that it is going to be dangerous close up. I'd avoid the classic very hollow based Forster slug, which just might break up or skid on heavy bone. Otherwise just about anything substantial would do, but I wouldn't go for anything heavy enough in slug or charge to impose very heavy recoil. I think a second or third well aimed shot is worth more.

[Geoffrey]

It isn't that big a problem, since one saving grace of dangerous game since the pterosaurs gave up swooping, is that it is going to be dangerous close up. I'd avoid the classic very hollow based Forster slug, which just might break up or skid on heavy bone. Otherwise just about anything substantial would do, but I wouldn't go for anything heavy enough in slug or charge to impose very heavy recoil. I think a second or third well aimed shot is worth more.

Good point, that's my thoughts on recoil vs follow up shot as well.

[kenyerian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0EAK6jYTsg Here is one about using a 12 point 15mm socket to make homemade slugs.

[Hogtamer]

The pressure required to move a big lead slug is gonna be hard to achieve in a 14" barrel, as a slow burning powder is required. would not look for bigger, i.e. full bore slugs but would look smaller using a faster powder. Think the lee 7/8 oz wad type or the .678 RB that Longbow favors for wad type. It's a big hole either way and the recoil won't kill you.

[tomme boy]

Fiocchi used to make these slugs loaded. Not sure if they still do. They use a hard alloy that does not deform too bad. I have picked up a bunch of these in the hill at our shooting range digging for lead. Never found one deformed except from another bullet impacting it.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/12g...tinfo/0721612/

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Thanks Longbow, I will be using a 14" smoothbore barrel. I'm not sure what the choke is but can check with some calipers when I get back.

I am looking for something for close range work, so accuracy under 50m is fine.

I already have a Lee 1oz mold for my plinking ammo.

The Lyman sabot is one I came across but wasn't sure about for big bears and cats.

I have some factory loaded Brenneke slugs too, was thinking I'd like to try loading a dangerous game round so I can tune the point of aim and point of impact and fine tune the powder charge for more accuracy.

It looks longer in the picture, and I might be mistaken. But maybe you are contemplating shortening even 16in. to rmove the choke. 14in. will surely achieve the same velocity as a 28in. shotgun does by halfway along the barrel, and that would probably be a very useful proportion of its terminal velocity. If you thought you might have had to defend yourself against humans, it could be inside a vehicle or room, and there might be good reason to go so short, but I wouldn't for use in the open. It makes very little difference to weight.

[Geoffrey]

Sorry to drag this back up but after seeing several threads on some Russian slug molds I thought I'd bump this thread and see what everyone's thoughts are on this topic after these molds have been released.

I am looking for loading simplicity with slugs fitting into a normal shot cup wad be preferred.

Been reading more on the round ball molds and I am starting to lean that way.

Does anyone know of any tests showing how different cast slugs do in ballistics gel?

Thanks again to all that have posted here.

[longbow]

If you are using smoothbore your options are limited to drag stabilized slugs or round ball.

The only commonly available drag stabilized slug moulds I know of or the Lee Drive Key slug moulds (7/8 oz. & 1 oz.) and the Lyman sabot slug mould (525 grs.) and Lyman Foster slug mould (full bore and about 1 oz.) which I do not recommend. The Lee slugs and Lyman sabot slugs fit standard shotcups so are easy to load and if cast out of wheelweights should penetrate well.

There are now some Russian slug moulds available in a variety of styles and weights and they include the Gualandi DGS slug clone but the drag stabilized versions all use a proprietary tail wad that may or may not be readily available. Bloodtrail has some good posts on those slugs.

The other option is round ball. Either 0.678" (Lyman and RCBS make these) or 0.735" (Lyman) will work well and are quite accurate to 50 yards plus. The 0.678" balls weigh just over an ounce and the 0.735" balls weight about 580 grs. The 0.678" balls fit many standard shotcups. I use Winchester mostly. The 0.735" balls like a hard card wad column with plastic gas seal over the powder. I cut gas seals off wads then use 1/2" hard card wads and nitro card wads under the ball. BPI sells the wads and there is a Canadian BPI dealer in De Winton Alberta ~ Bilozir Fine Guns. He can bring in any BPI products.

Track of the Wolf has all the round ball mould sizes and they sell round balls too if you want to try some first. They would likely be soft lead and I'm not sure if they will ship to Canada now though as their round balls are technically bullets and Homeland Security has rules about exporting ammunition and components. TOW can certainly sell you the moulds though. They also have inexpensive bag moulds in a variety of ball sizes too.

A hard ball penetrates well and they are easy to cast and load.

As for comparative penetration tests, there doesn't seem to be a lot I've found other than this:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...arious-rounds/

Longbow

[Geoffrey]

Thank you Longbow, I may just order the DGS complete with wad from BPI; workup my load data to get my POI to match my POA then load cast slugs to match those for practice. Then I'm only shooting the DGS when they're truly needed.

That may be the simplest option and allows me to shoot any cast projectile with similar trajectory for practice purposes.

[victorfox]

Check Svarog Hunt, look for the Italian Gualandi mold. Pretty much the same as the real deal

[Geoffrey]

Check Svarog Hunt, look for the Italian Gualandi mold. Pretty much the same as the real deal

Thank you, I'll look into that.