Loading the 10.4 mm Italian Revolver

[The Goose]

One of my latest acquisitions. A Glisenti 1889 Bodeo officer's revolver in 10.4 mm.

Of course I want to shoot it. A little research and here is what I came up with. The .44 special brass makes a good parent brass for the 10.4 mm and I have literally hundreds of .44 special cases. The case needs to be shortened from 1.16" to .89". The rim diameter on the .44 is .514 and on the 10.4mm it is .505. However for whatever reason the rim of the .44 fits perfectly in the Bodeo cylinder. So no need to reduce the rim diameter. Usually I use a small chop saw to reduce substantial brass length followed by a trimmer, but on this one I skipped the saw and went straight to trimming. I bought a drill power adapter for my Forster trimmer and it works great.

Here is the result:


I have my brass and now I need a bullet. Tom from Accurate Molds (I will plug him and his company at every opportunity) made me a 4 cavity aluminum mold that throws a 175 gr. .424 bullet and Buffalo Arms Co. was the source for a .424 sizing die that would fit my Lyman Lubrisizer. The bullet is fairly close to the original. I used Sagebrush black powder lube.

A used a .303 British sizing die which provided just the right shape and a large magnum pistol primer. The expander die was a bit tricky. The case was too short for the Lee .44 special expander die that I already had. However the expander plug on the Lee die moves up and down so I unscrewed the top of the die and but a nut that fit on top of the expander plug and put it back together. This held the plug low enough to flare the 10.4mm case mouth. Also the Lee powder through expander dies are awesome for loading black powder because I can put a metal funnel in the top and expand and charge in one step. I do not use a drop tube for blackpowder pistol cases. I find it makes little difference. I used 18 grs. of Goex 3F blackpowder.


I was able to use the .44 special seating die and factory crimp die. Here are 6 loaded rounds in the cylinder:

I will post a range report once I get to shoot it. This cold weather has lead me to doing mostly indoor projects. I am expecting decent results within the limitations of a 125 year old revolver with a HEAVY trigger. The gun is built like a tank and will certainly shoot safely with blackpowder. We will see about accuracy. Being able to hit what I aim at is definitely a plus, but the real thrill for me is bringing these old guns back to life.

[NoAngel]

Very cool!
I bet Trail Boss would keep you at safe pressures and alleviate the need for constant cleaning.


Nice work. I've had my eye on a Chamelot Delvigne for a while. I like seeing these old birds fly.

[Drydock]

Pretty much the same for me. I'm using Lee .44 russian dies in a Lee 4 hole turret. Unaltered Starline 44 Russian brass. Lee 200 RNFP. Basicly load a .44 Russian round, then in the 4th hole have a Lee 303 sizing die body, run the finished round half way into that, makes a long taper crimp that slides right into the chamber. Have not put it on paper, but it rings my 8" gong, and I've shot several armadillo's with it!

[commando223]

Neat!

[Rundownfid]

The Goose;
Have you shot the Glisenti yet? I just bought a Chamlot-Delvigne which also uses the 10.4. Very interested in your results, and thoughts.

[The Goose]

The Goose;
Have you shot the Glisenti yet? I just bought a Chamlot-Delvigne which also uses the 10.4. Very interested in your results, and thoughts.

It turned out that my Glisenti did not like the .44 spl brass. I ended up using .45 auto rim which works great. I also have a Chamelot Delvigne and it is a way better shooter then the Glisenti. That one takes a 200 gr heeled bullet.

[Rundownfid]

Would you like to sell some of the heeled bullets? Also, what powder charge are you using? That long cone shaped hammer on my Chamlot-Delvigne is mashing up my primers and even causing some flow making it harder to turn the cylinder. Are you having that problem? With the 240 grain bullets I have tried, for a .44 Spec and .44 Mag I am getting very high hits, about 5" at 7 yds. I need significantly lighter and or faster bullets, apparently; but then the sights were regulated for 177 gr?

[The Goose]

Would you like to sell some of the heeled bullets? Also, what powder charge are you using? That long cone shaped hammer on my Chamlot-Delvigne is mashing up my primers and even causing some flow making it harder to turn the cylinder. Are you having that problem? With the 240 grain bullets I have tried, for a .44 Spec and .44 Mag I am getting very high hits, about 5" at 7 yds. I need significantly lighter and or faster bullets, apparently; but then the sights were regulated for 177 gr?

My Chamelot Delvigne functions flawlessly. I assume you are talking about the French Chamelot Delvigne service revolver in 11mm? Email me at sgoselin@breatheasier.com and maybe I can help you out.

[toot]

where do you guys get healed bullets in this day and age? does some one make a mold for them still?

[The Goose]

where do you guys get healed bullets in this day and age? does some one make a mold for them still?

Accurate Molds and Old West Bullet Molds both make molds for heeled bullets. Accurate is where I got the mold for my 1873 French Chamelot Delvigne 11mm.

[Rundownfid]

Thanks to "The Goose" for sending me some cast bullets for the Italian 10.0 They work fine as do some 200 gr originally for the 44/40. However both shoot incredibly high. Like 6-7 inches in only 7 yds. However, on a whim I tried them at 200 yds and they were within a few feet, when they finally got there. This is with 200 gr bullets over 4 gr of Titegroup. I am reluctant to build up the fron sight enough to get even reasonable poa/poi so don't think I'll be shooting this old girl much.

[Argentino]

I´ve one of those Italian revolvers as well.

I tought it was like new, but then I discovered Bubba spent some time trying to shoot .45´s out of it:
charge holes were bored out to accept a .45 case. One of them is heavily ovalized due to excesive pressure
(probably from a .45 acp; it gives me a headache every time I think of a .451" FMJ squeezing down a 0.425" bore ).

Despite an almost ruined cylinder I was determined to make it bark again with the right load.
Main problem was to accommodate the proper boolit for a 0.425" bore in charge holes already drilled to accept .45 cases.

My solution was to use .44 /40 cases, using 15 grains of FFFg and seating a 200gn .44WCF soft lead boolit all the way down to the BP charge. By doing this the boolit seats completely inside the case, allowing it to fit into the chamber (the .44wcf case is a hair shorter than the cylinder).

Since the .44 wcf is a tapered case, the front section of each round was tilting inside each chamber.
I center them prior to firing by simply adding 1 wrap of masking tape to each case mouth.

15 gns of FFFg pushed a 200gn 0.427".44 wcf boolit around 380-400 fps. Very nice and mild load.

It´s surprisingly accurate at 20 yards but POI is way higher than expected.

I guess this will work until I find a replacement cylinder.

Argie.