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Thread: berdan primer conversions revisited AGAIN

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    berdan primer conversions revisited AGAIN

    i have a large quantity of hoarded berdan, high quality cleaned washed brass in different calibers

    and i ran across this http://www.russianreloads.com/ the master kit is pricey.........

    has anyone tried it???? they are using it on steel cases some spare bits and using it on brass my great greats
    might be using it...........

    thoughts?????

    gutpile

  2. #2
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    There's a lot of information archived here on this site about converting berdan primed brass to boxer. Run a search or two and you'll have several hours of information and learning for the reading.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master




    Scharfschuetze's Avatar
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    I second Gebirgsjaeger's comments. Search for your topic and add Larry Gibson to the search as well. He wrote extensively on the topic. I have made the conversions following his instructions with the 303 British using the good South African Berdan cases. It's best to have a drill press to process the cases. It's much easier to drill out the little nipple in the primer pocket if the case is held securely for the drill bit too.

    Once done, you'll actually have a much larger area for the ingress of the primer jet into the case. Start your loads low and work up. I've actually never seen much difference in large FHs v. standard FHs; but it is a word to the wise.
    Last edited by Scharfschuetze; 01-09-2017 at 11:52 PM.
    Keep your powder dry,

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  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have done this conversion many times with not much real success. It just breaks my heart to toss quality BRASS and I am the total do it yourself guy I get more joy from tinkering with ammo and guns then shooting. Berdan conversion not real hard to do but real hard to do well every time. Just my experience. Good luck

  5. #5
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    I'm far from an expert but I did it with some 7.62x39 brass with a hand drill and 5 out 20 came out alright. I put all the brass of to the side till I find a deal on a drill press. With a hand drill it just isn't worth the time or effort. I had better success useing the hydro method and glueing the primers in but you can't run the ammo hot or they start to come out.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    $150 for a box that holds the brass while you drill seems very pricey.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Many ways to solve this:
    1-convert to boxer
    2-find Berdan primers
    3-make your own priming compound and reload primers
    4-use a rollcap and a little black powder and reload the primers

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Ugh.... 3 & 4 sound like end of the world scenarios. If you have a press convert to boxer primers via Larry Gibsons method. If not then you could make your own jig for hand drilling them but good luck.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    I just remembered I watched a video a while back ago of a guy who fashioned a deprived that actually punched through the back of the case. It fit on his press and was a normal depriving die with a thick sharp depriving pin. Could try to shape something like that and tighten it down in a Lee deprimer.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy Johnny_V's Avatar
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    I had made a collet for doing this and the primers were drilled out on my milling machine. At first this worked perfect, but then thing started to go south after a couple firings, so I abandoned the project. I think the only safe way of doing the conversion is to use boxer primed brass. Just my 2¢ though.

    A picture of my 7.62 x 39 custom made collet and closer for the mill
    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #11
    Boolit Master WRideout's Avatar
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    I converted some 7.5 Swiss using, I think, Larry Gibson's method, which is to drill out the bottom of the primer, and leave the sides in the hole as a bushing of sorts to hold the new boxer primer. Some worked okay, but the "bushings" frequently came loose. I tried drilling flash hole, then drilling out the bottom, then swaging with an RCBS primer pocket tool. The "bushings" were to loose to stay put, and the new primers would not fit.

    In a moment of inspiration, I tried hydraulic decapping, then more or less swage the opening of the primer hole using a steel ball on the top of the press ram. I did succeed in modifying the top of the ram to the point that regular shell holders would not fit. Back to the drawing board.

    There are instructions around for using small diameter copper tubing to make the bushing that goes in the primer hole, but I haven't tried that yet. All in all, converting cases seems to something you need to be driven to do; either because you can't get brass for that caliber any other way, or because you are a machinist at heart, and love a challenge. BTW I did the drilling on the 7.5 Swiss cases on my buddy's lathe, which greatly simplified alignment.

    Wayne
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    HI, I have over 1000 rounds of beautiful modern German mil-spec 7.62x51 ammo. I did my best to measure the primer pocket hole w/vernier calipers and compared to Win 308. My eyes say they are the same size although I know the German is Berdan. I'm gonna try part one of Gibson's method, pry out the fired primer, cut out the 3 stake crimp and see what I end up with. More to follow. Thanks Larry !!!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Go to 22reloder.com. they make a drill jig for Lyman, Hornady, and RCBS dies that guides the drill bit to drill the flash hold/depriming hole. They say to use the included drill stop to keep from penetrating the origional primer cup. Deprime as usual then press one of the sleeves they make to hold the LRP in place. Claim it lasts the life of the brass. I'm going to try L.G.' s method of leaving the sides of the origional primer cup in place swaged to LRP size. If it comes out after firing use one of 22rl sleeves.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  14. #14
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    Did you mean "http://www.22reloader.com/" ? All they show is stuff to reload 22 rimfire and the site is broken.

    There is no site "22reloder.com"

    The only site I found with a kit for 308 is on http://www.russianreloads.com
    This one: http://products.russianreloads.com/p...ze-medium.html

    Until I shoot some of mine and remove the primer (tomorrow) I won't know what size they are for sure. They appear far smaller than those in military 7.62x54.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6.5 CM View Post
    HI, I have over 1000 rounds of beautiful modern German mil-spec 7.62x51 ammo. I did my best to measure the primer pocket hole w/vernier calipers and compared to Win 308. My eyes say they are the same size although I know the German is Berdan. I'm gonna try part one of Gibson's method, pry out the fired primer, cut out the 3 stake crimp and see what I end up with. More to follow. Thanks Larry !!!
    Wow I would reprime the Berdan primer cups. I am trying to talk Marshall into making a video on how to make the priming compound. Once you have that the actual priming job not nearly as involved as converting to Boxer primer cups.

  16. #16
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    I blew up enough stuff as a kid with my Gilbert's chemeristy set. beside, once converted, they are good for life with cast boolits.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    Wow I would reprime the Berdan primer cups. I am trying to talk Marshall into making a video on how to make the priming compound. Once you have that the actual priming job not nearly as involved as converting to Boxer primer cups.
    I can well understand doing something just for the sake of tinkering with it. Otherwise, I am sure I’ve seen Berdan primers for sale and not much difference in price from Boxer primers.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    I can well understand doing something just for the sake of tinkering with it. Otherwise, I am sure I’ve seen Berdan primers for sale and not much difference in price from Boxer primers.
    For me, considering that perhaps 70% of the cost of reloading 9mm and other smaller pistol calibers is the price of the primers, reloading them becomes attractive. For example, I have to pay about 4 cents per primer for 9mm. The cost of lead is practically nill, the cost of brass is practically nill and the cost of powder is about 2 cents. So the cost of reloading 9mm goes from 6 cents per round to 2 cents per round. This is kind of price I like to pay for reloading 9mm. Maybe it's just me...

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy Johnny_V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    I can well understand doing something just for the sake of tinkering with it. Otherwise, I am sure I’ve seen Berdan primers for sale and not much difference in price from Boxer primers.
    Greg, where have you seen Berdan primers for sale? We have looked high and low and it seems as though all the suppliers in the US no longer carry them. Someone said that Berdans are restricted from import, how true is that, I'm not sure.
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  20. #20
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    Could be the countries where berdan primers are made have US import restrictions on arms and ammo.
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check