25-20 Ver 25-20

[MT Chambers]

If you breach seat, you don't need dies or many brass cases, just keep using the same case, deprime and reprime at the range.

[Hooker53]

Hello MT Chambers. That's what I'v read but to be honest with ya, I Have to do some reading up on that technique. Never have tried it. I'm not beyond doing that but at this point, there's just something gratifying about reaching down in a box of 50 thats ready to go and throwing one in the chamber. Ha. Thanks for posting.

Roy
Hooker53

[gnoahhh]

When you get a load of what a set of semi-custom dies cost for the .25-20SS, you might reconsider breech seating! Added benefit is you don't need but a couple cases, and they will last forever as you won't be doing any re-sizing. Such an anachronistic approach is anathema to "hose and spray" rapid fire crowd, but what do they know?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The .25-20 WCF was introduced to make it short enough for the Winchester 92 action - just as its close relative the .32-20 was for the 73. The Single Shot version has usually been considered just as good in every way except the price and availability of brass. They may have levelled out a bit since .25-20 brass became hard to get as well.

You will occasionally find Stevens 44 rifles which have had the barrel set back slightly, and have been rechambered for the more easily available WCF round. Some of these conversions were done many decades ago, and I don't consider it as distressing a loss of originality as some conversions. But I would rather have the SS version, and I would want to turn my microscope on the calibre identification of any Stevens rifle offered to me as an original .25WCF. I wouldn't altogether dismiss the possibility of a factory special order for the .25-20 WCF, but they don't catalogue it in a Stevens catalogue no. 52 which I have. It isn't dated, but it includes the 44½ rifle, which I think dates it at 1903 or later.

Beware of .25-21 long, and .25-25 Stevens rifles, for they aren't just alternative names for other cartridge like some of those old cartridges. They are straighter cases of still of smaller diameter than either of the .25-20s, and are ridiculously long and absurdly long, respectively. The brass is even harder to get, and while I don't think there is any difference in consistency of burning between the two .25-20s, I think there would be with the other two.

[Texas by God]

I have a 25-20 SS and a 28-20 Stevens in my "old" drawer. Strange little long cartridges they are.

[Hooker53]

gnoahhh. You have that shot right. I been pricing those Die sets you are talking about. I think I would fire up one of my lathes and do a set myself before I paid that. Lol. All I would need is a neck sizing die for what I'm doing. I know I would have to anneal every so often but, I do that with my 25-20 WCF anyway and get many shots off with those. I will read up on this Breech Seating. Thanks for posting.

B in S, always great info. So far I agree with you 100% on liking the SS. IV managed to squeeze off one or two with the ol gal and so far, I'm impressed on this cart and I'm not even finished with the rebuild and tune up. I have managed to squander about 40 rounds of brass and if this old rifle is going to do what I think it is, don't mind paying them what they want for a bag of 100. In fact, to make sure I have plenty, I may put in an order for it a Way. From what iv seen, and i would like to have some input on fhis as well, as im working my loads up 1 or 2 grans at a time, my thinking with this fifle and brass combination, i would more then likly split or blow the mouth of the case off or at least start showing flat primers before i could hurt the gun. Right???? Later and thanks again for posting.

Roy
Hooker53

[Wayne Smith]

Don't give up on dies until you talk to Dave Davidson at CH4D. He may have it on the shelf.

[Hooker53]

Hello Wayne. IV heard of that company. I can find a set of dies right easy. It's the price that's setting me back. Ha. I will in time get me a set. I think I could do without all but a resizing die. I have a decapper I turned out of 01 drill Fod I use for my 38 Cal roller and my Cadet brass and have used it the last few times on what few 25-20 SS IV fired. I think all I will need to do is resize the neck and leave the rest alone. If I can get a tight Boolit in most of the necks after firing, I won't even do that.

From what IV seen, the least I work this brass, the better off I will be. I found, bidded on and won a new old, Lyman hand resizing die for SS this weekend. 19 bucks and you use it like the old Lee shotgun Whack -A-Mole die sets. I didn't even know Lyman made them back years ago. Ha. They packaged them in the old Orange boxes like they packed their moulds in. Thanks for reminding me of CH4D and thanks for posting.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bent Ramrod]

Do not load for your 44 until you see flattened primers! Long before this happens, your shells will stick in the chamber from the pressure springing back the breech block and linkage, and then it springing forward again, wedging in the shell. A few of these, and the linkage will stop springing forward and you will be able to see daylight between the breech face and the barrel. Then, the cases will start to stretch at the base and eventually rupture as the linkage continues to stretch.

Don't ask me how I know this.

If you have the proper shell holder, you can neck size, deprime, expand and seat your boolits with a set of regular .25-20 WCF dies, if you are careful and keep in mind that this is a makeshift. The lower part of the case will have no support, so you'll have to have your fingers in there to prevent the mouths from being mangled and the decapping pins from moving off the flash holes and breaking.

The proper shell holder depends on the manufacturer of the shells, the day of the week, and the phase of the moon. If you're lucky, a .223 holder will work, until you hit a slightly thicker or wider rim in your batch of cases. Then a rare and probably more expensive .25-20SS or .32 Long Colt holder is in order. Sometimes, even they don't work, if the rim is slightly too wide. If you have a lathe, you can thin and pare the offending rim(s) to a standard size.

[Wayne Smith]

Roy, those Lyman wack a mole dies work better with a Harbor Freight arbor press or a vice than a hammer! The slow leverage seems nicer, too. Lube well and have fun.

[Hooker53]

Wayne. Yes I think that's the bet way to do that. I would never use a hammer. I was just trying to describe the type of die I had found. Ha. I do have several presses ranging from very small all the way up to a 50 ton air over hydrolics press. Of coarse like you, I think the best is the small arbor type. That way you can feel what your doing.

Bent, thanks for the shell holder info. I was looking for the info on that very thing. So far on the first two IV done, I got by with the one that came with my 25-20 dies. It I have to be sure to push and hold the case in place because it's not a solid fit. Thats also good info on watching my load and keeping it light. If I contenue to like this cartridge, I'm not beyond going all the way to a 44 1/2. That I know will be a lot stronger lock-up.

Thanks for all this great info on this new to me, found cartridge.

Roy
Hooker53

[Multigunner]

Wayne Smith

"Roy, those Lyman wack a mole dies work better with a Harbor Freight arbor press or a vice than a hammer! The slow leverage seems nicer, too. Lube well and have fun. "

To prime cases with my Lee Loader I put a 4x4 under the table of my drill press and chuck a slim aluminum tube , then use the advance handle of the press to push the case down onto the Lee spring loaded priming base.

Back when I used a Lyman Nutcracker I had a hand priming tool made like pliers. I forget what brand these are, It might have been part of the Nutcracker tool itself, but they were the favorite of bench rest shooters in the 60's. Been meaning to find another priming tool just like it. As you can guess my memory of the 60's is not that good. They say if you do remember the 60's clearly you just weren't having much fun.

[Hooker53]

Multi, if that's the case with the 60's, it should all be a blur to me then. Lol. Good Info Multi and thanks for posting it. Where there's a will, there's a way. It also helps to have a small, nice home machine shop. IV made several tools to help out with my Martini Cadet cartridges. I will get something going with these single shots.

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

Guys. I know there has been some variance in this but let's have a roll call on which shell holder number you are using for the 25-20 single shot brass. Lee or RCBS is what I will be Hoping to use. Thanks.

Roy
Hooker53

[Eddie Southgate]

25-25 is the 25-21 with about 1/2" of additional case length. See page 353 of Phil Sharpe's book Complete Guide to Handloading , 1953 addition . New cases measure .300 diameter at the base and .280 at the mouth ,case length is 2.38 . The 25-25 was the first 25 - caliber straight shell manufactured by Stevens . The powder chamber is straight on the inside , while the outside of the case has a very straight and hardly noticeable taper.

Eddie

[Hooker53]

Thanks Eddie for your good info. Does anyone even use a shell holder to reload their SS??

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

Does anyone know the shell holder number for the Stevens 25-20 SS? Thanks

Roy
Hooker53

[Mr Hanssen]

Take a look her: https://www.buffaloarms.com/Content....Holder%20Chart

[Hooker53]

Thank you Mr. Hansen. I have one coming now. I did Google that twice but I must not have used the right wordage. Ha. What was throwing me was, several on here said the cases were varying enough that one shell holder alone would not work for all of them and I was trying to get an average. Thanks Again.

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

Ok guys. Got the rifle finished today and loaded up some rounds. Tomorrow is showdown time. Gonna send a few down the tube and see what it does. I will post a report and will go from there to work with the load. Thanks for all the help on this new one to me folks. Keep Shooten.

Roy
Hooker53