Adding Copper Sulphate.

[CLAYPOOL]

BOAT sorry about that..

[HI-TEK]

The Copper Sulfate I have used was to put in ponds, ETC> to kill water weeds and clear the water. Crystals in a sack. Drag around the pond with a boat as it dissolves..?? Blue green looking. kills roots in sewers also.

Are you aware, that solubilised Copper placed into ponds also kill fish. Fish are extremely sensitive to Copper, and if I recall correctly, Copper kills fish in parts per million.

[HI-TEK]

Sounds like a great idea to me. Please let us know how it works out. I might add that you may eventually devise some kind of flux for the copper rod just like the flux on a stick welding rod. If a person could come up with a formula for flux for copper to smelt into lead that way it would be a BIG deal to reloading.
I wonder if anyone has experimented with higher concentrations of copper/lead alloy for boolet making.

I have heard of guys using Copper MIG wire being introduced into molten Lead like if he was welding. Steel melting pot is Earth, and copper wire aimed/welded into molten Lead shielded by MIG gas. They control weight ratio by weighing Lead prior to treatment and then weighing remaining Copper wire after Coppering the Lead. You have to be very careful of spatter from molten Lead.

[MyFlatline]

Are you aware, that solubilised Copper placed into ponds also kill fish. Fish are extremely sensitive to Copper, and if I recall correctly, Copper kills fish in parts per million.

Has been used here in Florida for years for weed control in the rivers and lakes and the fish are still swimming.

[HI-TEK]

Has been used here in Florida for years for weed control in the rivers and lakes and the fish are still swimming.

Thanks for quick reply.
I am really surprised. Many years ago, I had been advised by aquarium/pond fish supplier that I cant use Copper piping for water recirculation for pond aeration, as Copper corrosion traces will dissolve into the water and kill the fish.
I can only think that water in that river may be more alkaline than what we have which can precipitate out the Copper that is then absorbed by the weeds from settled sludge.
I don't really know this phenomena works or why Copper kills plants.
We have a root killing chemical here that contains Copper Sulphate, but that ends up mainly in Sewer waste and is not sent into waterways until after it is treated.

Just searched the web.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3797326/
this site is where they publish results of toxicity of Copper on fish, apparently, and if I read this report correctly, about 2.5 parts per million Copper can cause fish kill in 96 hours. They also quote, that a 50% fish kill is achieved with 2.31 parts per million.
There seems to be many similar reports available on the web.
With waterways, effective dilution keeping Copper levels well below fish toxicity but being lethal to plants/Algae may be achieved.
My question is, how can the stuff be diluted adequately before adding it to the river/stream?
At entry point, the Copper levels may be very high, and the stuff moving through waterway is subsequently diluted.

Did more research. On this government site they quote figures for Catfish 50% mortality at Copper levels of 1.7 parts per million.
They quote Copper levels tolerances for other species of fish, but the results seem to agree/correlate with the other site I visited.
Other site is
http://www.isws.uiuc.edu/pubdoc/C/ISWSC-131.pdf

[woodbutcher]

Most interesting thread.Think I`ll saddle up and go along for the ride.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[bstone5]

OK
How many new pennies need to be added to a 20 pound pot of lead for the copper sulfate to go into solution for .2 percent copper added to mixture.

[HI-TEK]

OK
How many new pennies need to be added to a 20 pound pot of lead for the copper sulfate to go into solution for .2 percent copper added to mixture.

bstone5
It is most difficult to melt in Copper metal by simply placing it into molten Lead.
The melting point/solubility of the coin is much too high. To get some mixing into Molten Lead, you need temperatures for the Lead to reach around 800C . This is very bad for user as you get huge volumes of Lead vapour. I would not recommend it.

[dondiego]

OK
How many new pennies need to be added to a 20 pound pot of lead for the copper sulfate to go into solution for .2 percent copper added to mixture.

Remember, new pennies are thinly copper coated ZINC discs! Don't put zinc in your melt. Pennies minted prior to 1982 are what you want.

[popper]

^^^ totally WRONG. You add Zn or Sn to exchange for Cu in the Zep.

[dondiego]

^^^ totally WRONG. You add Zn or Sn to exchange for Cu in the Zep.

I don't do either so I can't be wrong, but I guarantee you that pennies made after 1982 are zinc, so if that is what you need then go for it. I can't understand why anyone would bother. I also know that I don't want zinc in my mix.

[Traffer]

I don't do either so I can't be wrong, but I guarantee you that pennies made after 1982 are zinc, so if that is what you need then go for it. I can't understand why anyone would bother. I also know that I don't want zinc in my mix.

It may help to read up on what is going on here. There has been a long discussion on how zinc can be added and that can be replaced by copper because of how the chemical bonds of this particular alloy work. So yes, you definitely want to introduce zinc to eventually get copper into your lead...With a particular technique.

[HI-TEK]

It may help to read up on what is going on here. There has been a long discussion on how zinc can be added and that can be replaced by copper because of how the chemical bonds of this particular alloy work. So yes, you definitely want to introduce zinc to eventually get copper into your lead...With a particular technique.

How are you doing Traffer,
I think that it is the other way around, Zinc displaces Copper and Zinc dissolves.
If you put Zinc into alloy containing Copper, the Zinc will displace the Copper, not the other way.

[bstone5]

I have been putting 5 new pennies in a 20 pound pot of lead and then putting the copper sulfate on top of the melted lead. After the copper sulphate turns white I mix the lead.
After a little mixing, let the lead settle for a while and then shim the residue off the top of the lead.
I flux with bees wax, mix and clean the top,of the lead again.
The bullets cast with the copper added will get hard in a few days.
I cast a 117 grain 30 caliber bullet for the M1 Carbine the bullets are powder coated and a home made gas check is installed.
The 30 caliber bullets with the coppe shoot very well in the carbine.

My previous question with regard to the number of pennies was to see if 5 were enough or not enough. Five seems to work well but is five too many or to few.

[HI-TEK]

I have been putting 5 new pennies in a 20 pound pot of lead and then putting the copper sulfate on top of the melted lead. After the copper sulphate turns white I mix the lead.
After a little mixing, let the lead settle for a while and then shim the residue off the top of the lead.

Copper Sulphate contains Water, and crystals are generally Blue. When you place this onto molten alloy, the water is evaporated, and the residue becomes white.

[Traffer]

How are you doing Traffer,
I think that it is the other way around, Zinc displaces Copper and Zinc dissolves.
If you put Zinc into alloy containing Copper, the Zinc will displace the Copper, not the other way.

It wouldn't be the first time I got it backwards. A lot of stuff here is beyond my simple (deteriorating) mind. Ugh, now I have to go back and read it more earnestly. And I hate to read that way.

[dondiego]

It may help to read up on what is going on here. There has been a long discussion on how zinc can be added and that can be replaced by copper because of how the chemical bonds of this particular alloy work. So yes, you definitely want to introduce zinc to eventually get copper into your lead...With a particular technique.

Yes, see that now. I didn't read enough.

[Retumbo]

Hmm maybe this alloy will come in handy...

Pb = 0%
Sb = 3.9%
Sn = 90.1%
Cu = 6.0%

My friend dropped off a 10 lb ingot.

[Traffer]

Hmm maybe this alloy will come in handy...

Pb = 0%
Sb = 3.9%
Sn = 90.1%
Cu = 6.0%

My friend dropped off a 10 lb ingot.

Very nice indeed. A pinch of that should get you there.

[HI-TEK]

Hmm maybe this alloy will come in handy...

Pb = 0%
Sb = 3.9%
Sn = 90.1%
Cu = 6.0%

My friend dropped off a 10 lb ingot.

That is a great alloy to get. You must have great friend.