Adding Copper Sulphate.

[Someudername]

HABCAN, my buddy, I'll convert the copper sulfate pentahydrate into anhydrous copper sulfate, in small batches as you need it.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

oh ok

[MyFlatline]

oh is that not a penny in that pic? and myflatline, I like your idea better, but I would like to see a measurement result, have you thought of having some tested, it only cost 1lb of lead.?..

Not a penny, flattened bullet.
No, I have never considered spending the extra money. My uneducated guess on "malability" is , if I can smash it flat, with no fragmentation, then it should do well holding together for hunting. I may be well off base, but IMO it is working for me.

[MyFlatline]

Not sure about the absorption but can definitely see a yellow tint in the mix.

I followed Popper and others for quite a spell, wanted a softer alloy but wanted it to stay together. I decided on this and powder coating, both are working for me

[Oklahoma Rebel]

what about fill-in, in the molds, does copper make a difference?

[1johnlb]

I have to run my pot hotter, probably 50 to 100 degree hotter on the pot. It's already been stated if you don't your bottom pour spout freezes up. Same with my molds they have to be hotter or it freezes when it hits the spru plate.

runfiverun

copper is a weird duck in a lead alloy.
it generally needs tin to get into the alloy, but it hangs onto the antimony once it's in there.

some is good more is worse.
.3% works well and casts nicely.
.5% works better [in the alloy] buts casts like,, well,,, like your trying to make tin foil with your spout.
heat it up and you oxidize out your tin turn it down and you freeze the spout.
finding the balance that helps and still casts well is generally in the .25-.30% range.

Like R5R said, your babbit will make the difference.

So to answer your question, yes it does make fill in tougher, but for me a little more tin and heat and problem solved.

[MyFlatline]

Yep, what John said. I keep a long handled lighter close to help the spout freeze at times. New pictures....
I truly think it works.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

ii found an article here somewere written by a guy that used a tig welder to add copper to lead./ I guess he basically did just like you would welding, but used a copper wire, and I don't think he ran it too hot. he did it on ingots, moving quickly to avoid melting in too much copper in one spot. if that happened he said it would just float to the top like a clump. so I am going to try that today, and we will see how it turns out. don't worry, I have all the protective gear necessary!

[popper]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...further/page26 See #502,504,505. All cast & shot fine. The WD ones were harder to push through the sizer. Don't have a BHN tester, they scratched with fingernail. I can send the flattened one to somebody to get XRF - no place here that will do it. This was just an experiment, I'll cast some 165 for the 40 & 170, 185 for the 30/30 to try.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

well it worked, I used a stick welder to add copper to lead alloy. first I melted about 6-7 lbs(what I had in my lee4-20) of lyman #2, once molten and good and hot I poured it into a stainless breadpan, I already had the welder ready with 4 thick 18"peices of wire (prob 12g), one in the ***. clamp. I hooked the neg.clamp to the pan and basically acted like I was welding the surface of the pool, stirring occasionally since it seemed to work best on a clear spot. I did have to turn the welder up a little (to 150) more then I do for most projects, but then again I never weld thick metal or anything. I just kept welding until the alloy hardened, I was able to get all 4 pieces of wire in it. it is definetly harder, of the top of my head I would guess the block is now .5-.75% . when I use it I will add a little pure. just thought id let you know. oh, by the way, there was no more popping or sparks flying than any other time I welded normally. Travis

[1johnlb]

I'd like to hear and see how it cast and shoots.

[Bama]

I learned a little on adding copper for HV rifle bullets this week. I got my stacks of WW and some previously hardened mixed up. ended up with WW, one bar of tin (pewter) and six large tablespoons of copper sulfate at 25.3% matalic copper. Cast the full 20 lb pot in 170 gr 30 cal bullets. before realizing how soft they were. they had cast well with few rejects. all had a light frost color. Pulled 30 and added gas checks and powder coated with Smokes JD Green. Using IMR 4895 set 15 at 40 gr and 15 at 41 gr. Highest velocity was 2790fpc. Accuracy was outstanding. The addition of copper seems to make even a soft aloy work in a HV rifle

[Oklahoma Rebel]

huh, interesting, can you explain what alloys you started with and what you did to them a bit better, I'm all ears, very interested in this subject,so far I think the welding method I used was the best but I think I added like 1% instead of .5, but I am going to throw that 10lb (or so) brick in when I mix my next batch of lyman 2, which, after throwing whats left of my current batch in for uniformity, will probably be 100lbs+.then I will bring the whole alloy to .5%, because that brick will only make it .01% so after doing that I believe it will be a good shooting alloy, and will most likely save me from having to heat treat. but we will see. I will continue updating as I go. how fast or slow it goes deepends on when I can scrounge up the money. have a good day! Travis

[popper]

Kinda made this stuff accidentally, IMO it's close to pure with a tad Cu. Shot 165gr. with 5gr. 231 @ 25 yds (near max for jacketed), 2x of BLL, from an XD 40 yesterday. Don't knock the 'group', I see only one front sight with my glasses on. 1 rnd jammed (setback from the ramp but IMO it was due to BLL or poor neck tension) but the rest feed fine. I was sizing some rifle boolits of the same alloy and got a very thin 'strip' from the leaded up sizer. I can bend it repeatedly without breaking (bent it 12 times in one spot and still didn't fail), about the thickness of Al foil. Anyway, no signs of tipping or leading plus comparison of isocore hitek coated shows my shooting was the culprit. Also tried it in the 30/30 GC helped a lot.
Attachment 186143Attachment 186144
Edit: Been casting for several years, always looking for harder alloy. Never knew you could run 40 & 30/30 hard with really soft alloy. Think I'll use some new GCs (vs recycled ones) & 2400 in the 30/30. 1600 fps for 185gr & soft should be a good pig load.

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

I love reading these threads but for some reason I always get a headache . All of this is WAY above my pay grade and ability,but I keep reading anyway.
Thanks for letting me hang around !!

[Oklahoma Rebel]

glad to have ya, still haven't shot my alloy yet, waiting to get some more materials for my next batch, but I might break a small chuck of that copper alloy and throw it in my melter when I cast more bullets, I wont know exactly how much by % copper would be in it, but I will steer towards a lot less is more. i'll let y'all know how it goes

[popper]

Kinda made this stuff accidentally Actually wanted to experiment with a Sb/Cu/Zn alloy but ended with this. When the weather warms I'll try just the pure/Cu and see if it is the same. Second part of the experiment is to see if Pb/Cu heat treats - it seems like it does. If tests work , I can mix malleable alloy from near pure to over 36 BHN, cheaply. Got another can of Zep yesterday, ran out after 3 yrs. ~2x the cost of HF PC/boolit.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

well I am fixing to cast some copper alloy boolits, I took 2 1 inch square chunks of my copper alloy block, (like 5%) and am adding it to an almost full 4-20 lee pot. I tthink that should be about right,i am going to size/check them at .313( for an sks) then lube them with a 314 die in a lyman 45. not sure if I will heat treat yet, that's why I am sizing first and then lubing. I will smash a boolit with a hammer and see how the metal reacts before I thorw them all in the oven. pretty excited to see how this works, plus I am using my new lee 312-185-1r for the first time too. so I will let you guys know! I wish I knew how to post photos, if I can figure out how to I definetly will. till next time, be safe! Travis

[Oklahoma Rebel]

well, I cast about 200 boolits, it took a while to get going, but I think that was more the new lee mold than the alloy, I think I got a little wax in one of the cavities while lubing the sprue plate and pins. but soon I was humming along, had my lee 4-20 set at 7 1/2 an it was giving me good frosted bootlits. a few didn't fill out at the top ( gas check area,) but other than that seemed to go good. now I am just going to wait a few days and see how it hardens up, though I might check/size them tonight, atleast some. I am eager to try these boolits out in the sks. to be continued...... Travis

[Oklahoma Rebel]

got done in time to load one cartridge up, lol, shot a 1 gallon cranberryjuice bottle, it was quite impressive, tomorrow I will dig up the boolit if I can find it and hopefully post a pic, I don't expect spectacular mushrooming or anything, it was a starting load, barely ejected the case, but I do think that I love this boolit, and within the week will have a load perfected and be on the curly tails of some wild hogs.the length of the boolit is perfect to crimp on the rib right behind the crimp groove ( hope you understand what I mean, might be hard to picture). I used a lee FCD, which I almost always do. do you guys know if SKS's usually have a front sight adjustment tool in the kit that's in the stock? I would like to adjust it once I get my load dialed in so that I don't have to put the rear sight at 2-300, because that's not as fine- tunable. thanks for listening. will keep you guys updated on my loads/hunting, and the next 100lb batch of lyman#2 that I am going to make,and it will have maybe 1% copper in it. I just have to save for a block of rotos 70pb/30sb 5lb brick, I have everything else! stay tuned...Travis in oklahoma