Adding Copper Sulphate.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

yup, shoots fine, expands well, and casts ok too, I did have some slight problems casting, but it was a maiden cast for a new mold, I am sure it was the problem, and it was only one of every 15-20 boolits

[popper]

Well, learned something today. Cast a bunch with Cu'd rifle alloy I just made using Zn vs the normal Sn I use. Cleaned the oatmeal off the top and still got 80% rejects. Put the oatmeal back in and Zep'd it again. Mush! Lots of it. Solution - it is the higher melt temp of Zn that holds the converted Zn powder. Solution - remove most of the mush, Zep the pot, - powder appears - remove. Add more mush & repeat. Note - if adding Zn for the conversion for a given % Cu, Zn weighs 1/2 Sn & Cu. Zn & Sn are replaced 1:1 but Zn weighs more. Did a test cast (725-735F) & zero rejects this time. I obviously didn't calc. my Zn correctly.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

only way to get rid of zinc that I know of is sulfer, read the sticky above all the other threads

[Oklahoma Rebel]

the boolits shoot just fine, and while pretty hard, the mushroom in the semi-soft dirt behind my target like a commercial boolit. its pretty cool. I think I am hooked on copper!

[Oklahoma Rebel]

so why are people using zinc now? I have always heard to never get It into your alloy because it gives it too much surface tension and wont fill out the mold. I noticed people mentioning zinc when they are talking about adding copper. I have added copper to my lyman#2 ( a bit too much actually) but it was only 6-7lbs, but anyways, I didn't even think about adding zinc. the very thought scares me!

[popper]

Zn is cheaper than Sn. Zep replaces it with Cu. Sulfur stinks but will harden alloy and remove Zn. No welder needed.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

oh, ok, me -i'll stick with the welder, it is safe ( I know as I was the guenea pig) and doesn't involve nearly as many steps. step one, melt alloy that has tin in it, step two, weld a weighed amount of copper wire into the alloy ( which has been poured into a stainless steel container, not your lee pot!) using thick 1 strand wire works best.

[Kitika]

If you are actually melting the copper into the lead by using the welder does it actually replace the tin like the chemical swap of using copper sulphate? I would think that the molten copper would distribute itself and alloy itself instead of needing to swap with the tin but I'm no chemist/metallurgist! I haven't tried either method yet but would like to in the near future but I'm short on tin and my scrap is near pure roof sheets that I'd like to harden up.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

to be honest, im not sure, but we are talking like .5%-.6% copper, so I wouldn't think I would miss the tin that much, but if someone really knows his stuff I would love to know if it is still replacing tin when I do it my way. im always curious and eager to learn new stuff., ps I am going to try the copper sulfate method with a small batch. cant knock it till you try it!

[Oklahoma Rebel]

oh, by the way you will only see a little change in hardness at first, but give it two weeks and it is way harder, and I think it continues to harden to maybe 30 days after alloying/casting

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I finally got some zep and tried it on about 15lbs of #2 alloy. super easy, I used 1 12ga shotgun shell full for an almost full lee 20lb bottom pour pot, now, when I do a 100-120lb batch, I will stick with the welder, because its easy to weigh the wire and know exactly how much I am putting in. its slower but oh well. as far as adding to some alloy in my melter, the zep is great!

[Oklahoma Rebel]

Popper,so you said that using the zepp method, that it needs zinc in the mix first? I did a small batch without using zink and it worked, what did it replace? the tin or the antimony. soon I will be doing 2 60lb batches of my lyman #2 + .5ish copper.should I throw a couple sinc WW's in each batch, or add a bit more tin. I have some solder ( unknown) maybe 1lb that I can spare, I have a few lbs of pure tin for adding to alloys so I don't really need it. as far as the sepp I will add a little more than 1/4lb which will be .5% (1/4lb=.41%). thanks

[popper]

Replaces the tin, mixes with the Sb.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

after hearing you talk about making oatmeal, I might just let it replace the tin, and add some of it before I mix the zepp in. I don't know if that is what caused your problem or not, I cant think of anything else except the temp being to low or you having like 10% copper in your mix. but you don't strike me as being that dumb. so I have no idea, I learned most of what I know about adding copper from you, good luck and let me know how it goes. p.s. are you going to maybe send a sample to bne to see if that might give us any clues as to whats going on with your alloy? keep us informed and have a good'un, Travis

[Oklahoma Rebel]

ok, I re-read your post, I must have missed some of it. I see you know that it was too much zinc,. and you were able to salvage some. are you going to try tto save the stuff you skimmed off if there's enough of it?

[gundownunder]

OK, I'm no rocket scientist so all this stuff makes my head hurt.
I am curious though, so wouldn't mind somebody converting all the mumbo- jumbo into plain and simple English for me
I use coww + 2% tin for all my bullets.
When I make my alloy of coww + tin I use 22 pounds of coww and .44 pounds of tin, if I then added copper sulphate to the mix how much C.S would I need to use and how much harder will my bullets be.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

maybe 2 ounces or so, put a bit extra tin in there first, you only need .2-.3%

[Willbird]

I have quite a stash of indoor range scrap. There are a lot of pulverized gilding metal jackets mixed in with it. I cannot help but think that with the 95% copper and 5% Zinc composition of gilding metal that some copper ends up in smelt that uses range scrap like that ??

Bill

[Traffer]

I almost did that once, glad I noticed it was grainy, and I don't think copper is, so do not use it for an alloy, I have gotten a small amount of very,very fine copper wire to mix with a torch, getting it as hot as possible and dipping/swirling the wire into the lead. I got some dissolved, about an inch, but it wasn't near enough to tell.sometime in the next week or so, I am thinking of doing some smelting, and while I am doing that, hook my stick welder up, the ground to the pot (half a propane tank) then clamp a thick copper wire( 1/8 ) into the ***. and stirring it in as it melts and sparks and whatnot. will be wearing protection...lol glasses,gloves, jeans, and being ready to run! just kidding. if anyone thinks this is a horrible idea, let me know. doubt it will stop me. but I do want to hear you opinions, either way. I do value them. Travis

Sounds like a great idea to me. Please let us know how it works out. I might add that you may eventually devise some kind of flux for the copper rod just like the flux on a stick welding rod. If a person could come up with a formula for flux for copper to smelt into lead that way it would be a BIG deal to reloading.
I wonder if anyone has experimented with higher concentrations of copper/lead alloy for boolet making.

[CLAYPOOL]

The Copper Sulfate I have used was to put in ponds, ETC> to kill water weeds and clear the water. Crystals in a sack. Drag around the pond with a both as it dissolves..?? Blue green looking. kills roots in sewers also.