Leading with PCed boolits

[Javater]

I have loaded 3.8gr of HP38, COAL of 1.03 and powder coated, sized to .358. They shoot great and accurate but i am getting leading from the middle to the muzzle.
Do i need to reduce the charge or more? since its fast burning powder? maybe switch to slower powder?
2 guns(Shield slugged out .357 and PT111 G2 slugged out.358)
I have read i should be .001 to .002 over the bore but that doesn't explain why its leading for the shield.
Also i have smashed the PCed boolit and PC stays and does not flake of break off.
i am using range scrap

[Landshark9025]

I experienced the same thing in an HK with PC, Hi-tek and traditional lubes with just range scrap and tin. Always had minor leading. Problem solved by going to a 95/3/2 alloy.

[yondering]

Are you using Harbor Freight powder coating? Or baking without a thermometer to verify temp?

I suspect the coating before anything else in a load like you describe. No way should you be seeing any lead in the bore at all if the coating is doing it's job. Either a poor quality coating or not cured correctly, could be too hot or too cold.

The other possibility is that your .358 sizer is actually sizing smaller, or your loading process is sizing the bullets smaller. Are you crimping the loaded rounds much? (If so, stop that.) Are you using a Lee FCD? Any of those could size the bullet smaller than your bore, which will allow gas cutting resulting in leading.

Also, you posted some load details but it's hard for anybody to judge that without knowing what bullet you're using. The OAL looks pretty short for most 9mm bullets.

[runfiverun]

I have seen P/C boolits come out the muzzle with no P/C on their sides.

[shoot-n-lead]

I have seen P/C boolits come out the muzzle with no P/C on their sides.

I have seen this, also...and they did not lead. Go figure...

[seppos]

Should the coat to be thicker?

S

[Javater]

Are you using Harbor Freight powder coating? Or baking without a thermometer to verify temp?

I suspect the coating before anything else in a load like you describe. No way should you be seeing any lead in the bore at all if the coating is doing it's job. Either a poor quality coating or not cured correctly, could be too hot or too cold.

The other possibility is that your .358 sizer is actually sizing smaller, or your loading process is sizing the bullets smaller. Are you crimping the loaded rounds much? (If so, stop that.) Are you using a Lee FCD? Any of those could size the bullet smaller than your bore, which will allow gas cutting resulting in leading.

Also, you posted some load details but it's hard for anybody to judge that without knowing what bullet you're using. The OAL looks pretty short for most 9mm bullets.

I used Smoke's Powder, but dont have thermometer to verify the temp. I have read that if i do the smash test it will tell me if the PC was done right. which i have mashed alot and they all stayed on the boolit.

i have measured alot of boolits they all come out .358 or .3575 and i have used without and with FCD. I seat and crimp with Lee setup and i crimp enough to remove the flair and cycle reliably.

i am using Lee Mold 356-120-TC design drops at 358 at 126gr.

[upnorthwis]

I have the same mold. Load them unsized and let the FCD do the sizing. Worked for me in the S&W M&P. You only want them sized enough to reliably enter the chamber. Plunk test works well for this. Might also remove a boolit and measure with a micrometer to check size.

[sandman228]

I pc with harbor freight red or yellow ive noticed small metallic flecks of lead on the patch when cleaning but never any lead smears in barrels .

[Phlier]

I have loaded 3.8gr of HP38, COAL of 1.03 and powder coated, sized to .358. They shoot great and accurate but i am getting leading from the middle to the muzzle.
Do i need to reduce the charge or more? since its fast burning powder? maybe switch to slower powder?
2 guns(Shield slugged out .357 and PT111 G2 slugged out.358)
I have read i should be .001 to .002 over the bore but that doesn't explain why its leading for the shield.
Also i have smashed the PCed boolit and PC stays and does not flake of break off.
i am using range scrap

That is a seriously short OAL. Are you unable to get longer rounds to feed reliably? You are four hundredths of an inch shorter than the shortest published 9mm load I've been able to find. You are in to an area where just the smallest change in powder charge can mean extremely large changes in pressures.

How did you arrive at that OAL?

[popper]

Hodgdon shows ~ 0.1" short, 3.9gr min. I've heard of shield throat problems shaving lead

[Javater]

Damn Shield wont pass plunk test if its longer then 1.032 which drives me crazy b/c my PT111 G2 can plunk test up to 1.063
that is why i try to settle on 1.03 Accuracy is great on both pistol with this setup but damn leading is driving me up the wall and back. Oh yea. Leading is found on the grooves and not on the lands, also only from halfway mark to the muzzle. I was suggested to add 45/45/10 to the PC....is this viable?

Also maybe b/c i didnt "CURE" the bullets for 2 weeks. only been 4 days.

My next option would be to load 4.2gr and hope i dont blow it up and 3.3gr and hope that i dont get a squib. Maybe try slower burning powder like WSF, Unique, Powerpistol?

[Freightman]

Sounds like you need it throated by one of our members had a 45 acp barrel never could get to feed COL so sent it to DougGuy works with longer OAL now

[Javater]

How conclusion is this quote, " Another source of leading that can be traced to the components of the load is the mismatch of the powder burn rate to pressure generated by the load. Many years ago Elmer Keith used to write about the "balance point" of a given powder; the range of pressures at which that powder delivered smooth uniform ballistics. Basically this boiled down to fast powders for light target loads (e.g. Bullseye, W231, HP-38, AA #2), medium burners for standard pressure loads (like Unique, Universal Clays, AA #5), medium slow powders for +P loads (powders like HS-7, Blue Dot, AA #7) and slow powders for full-house magnum loads (like W296, H110, 2400 and AA #9). Match the powder to the pressure curve."

And where do i find this Pressure curve for HP-38?

[Javater]

Sounds like you need it throated by one of our members had a 45 acp barrel never could get to feed COL so sent it to DougGuy works with longer OAL now

Odd thing is i can plunk the shield with 1.05 with Berry's HBFP 124gr sized to .356. but not any longer than that. maybe the design of it.

[308Jeff]

Odd thing is i can plunk the shield with 1.05 with Berry's HBFP 124gr sized to .356. but not any longer than that. maybe the design of it.

That seems like a very short chamber. I have always loaded Berry's 115 and 124gr for my XD and XDm at 1.15.

ETA - Same length for the STI Trojan as well.

[Phlier]

Yeah, you're packing a fairly fast burning powder into a tight spot. HP-38 isn't as fast burning as, say, Bullseye, but it's still fairly fast. I've been using a powder slower than HP-38 (CFE-Pistol) in 9mm with cast boolits with great results.

[Javater]

I just found out ogive on the powder coated bullets add about .003 all around compared to non-powder coated. thats why i had to seat them deeper. I might try a 1.05 "tight fit" plunks OK but will not fallout without shaking. Which i think it means is that powdercoat is touching the lands/groves before completely seated. Not sure IF COAL can affect the leading? Higher pressure would cause it?

[Phlier]

I got so wrapped around the axle about your OAL, that I just now noticed that you're using range scrap. The PC experts will probably chime in here, but I believe that straight range scrap will most likely be too soft, even for PC'd boolits. Yes, you can shoot a much softer alloy when you PC, but you still need *some* hardness.

If your load is working well except for leading, you might want to try a bit harder alloy. A slower burning powder might help, too.

[Walter Laich]

no expert here but I've used range scrap and no leading in mid load .38, .44 Sp, .45 Colt

You can purchase a oven thermometer from wally world for about $5 (in cooking section) and that will remove doubts about baking times. Kinda wondering about your temp and this is a cheap way to answer that question

may have missed it but how long are you cooking your bullets? don't think we've addressed that yet