RotoMetals2Inline FabricationMidSouth Shooters SupplyLoad Data
WidenersTitan ReloadingLee PrecisionReloading Everything
Repackbox
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 89

Thread: DIY 100 pound pot/master caster

  1. #61
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    5,268
    Does your cad software run on DOS?
    Yes, it's old as heck the files are HPGL, torch on/off is pin up/down commands.

  2. #62
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    East KY
    Posts
    35
    Very nice. Wish I had room for something like that.

  3. #63
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    524
    BIG-little update

    The other day, I added a lever to the spru plate for the 30 cal mold. I was trying to figure out where I wanted the pins to activate the plate but wasn't sure if the setup was even going to work right. The only way to find out is to fire it up and try it. The little plastic hammer I use for my hand molds was on the shelf waiting for a workout, so I dropped some ingots of range scrap in the pot and heated it up.

    This was a brand new NOE brass mold and I had not cleaned it or heat cycled it. That is a bunch of work. Instead, I cleaned it with a qtip and brake cleaner and lubed it then hit it with a propane torch. It took a while to get it to run. After a number of tries, I used brake cleaner to get the excess oil out of the cavities and cranked the pot up to 850 degrees. Eventually, some decent boolits came out. This alloy likely needed some tin added to it but I didn't want to sweeten the pot until I knew it would run. Enlarging the primary spout by 1/32nd of an inch helped but the flow was just adequate with the valve adjustment raised up. There was only 2-3" of lead in the pot, so I won't drill the spout just yet. When I get it half full or so, the flow will increase. The arms for the mold carrier needed lube to move freely. The heat made them stick.

    Below is what I have. The GC shanks are plenty big and are a bit of a pain to get the hornady copper checks on and even the aluminum checks from a person here. Hopefully it won't slow me down on sizing. The heater was not turned on for the RCBS LAM I, and it has Cred in it, so very little lube ended up on those two boolits.

    Now, I can make a basket and figure out pins to work the spru plate. It was really nice not holding the mold in my hand and will be better when I don't have to work the spru plate. Automation is in it's future.



  4. #64
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    1,775
    Those are some fine looking projectiles right there, well done!

    Glad it's all coming together as you had hoped, and its producing some great projectiles.

  5. #65
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    5,268
    Been awhile, how is the progress going?

  6. #66
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    524
    Quote Originally Posted by jmorris View Post
    Been awhile, how is the progress going?
    Life has gotten in the way a bit. I have multiple positions in the gun club, including a board position, and there has been plenty of drama to deal with. The heat and my neck and back issues have slowed me down, on top of the usual obligations in life.

    The boolits want to stick in the mold. I found an article on here that talked about using vinegar, peroxide, or both to patina a brass mold. I followed the directions and heat cycled it and it has a decent patina, but they still stick.

    The thermocouple went bad on my pot, so I ordered a new 10" version from auberins and got that working last night. The temp was good. When the mold gets good and hot, it takes too long for the sprue to solidify. Moving the handle too early results in lead pouring down into my boolit tray. A fan may be in order to freeze it faster and keep the speed up so the mold stays hot. The bands fill out better when the brass molds are good and hot. The spring on my valve is too weak and I have to baby sit it. The valve doesn't seal perfectly. A catch tray for the drips would help.

    Last night, I ran an aluminum cooking pan under the mold to catch the boolits and sprues, but I need to make proper baskets. The sprue plate moves a tad, when I tap the mold and then the arm is a bit beyond the pin that opened it, which then requires I bump it back. The weight on the sprue plate may need to be adjusted so it is more balanced when the mold is open.

    Out of the last two tries, I got about a hundred usable but not great boolits. They should get me through the lever action match this month.

    I didn't hear back from the guy who I was going to buy the automation setup from and I have not reached back out to him with the slow progress on the machine and with having other bills to pay.

    I might pull the 30 cal mold and cast by hand and figure out why the boolits stick. When I do that, I could run the new 40 cal NOE mold and see if it drops well. There are still two rcbs molds to be adapted, but right now I really needed those Saeco 315 boolits more than anything.

    It sucks that photobucket went to hell. Forums are the only social media I use and threads like this are now screwed up. Hopefully, I'll get some of these little issues mopped up with this machine and be able to rely on it.

  7. #67
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    1,775
    Glad you made a little progress, shame you still get projectiles sticking. I found an acetylene flame, no oxygen so it's nice and sooty on the mould halves seems to do a good job of making them non stick.

    I'm with you with photobucket, they want like $500 usd to allow third party hosting, they can stick that somewhere unpleasant. I'll need to look for another free hosting site i think, little pic or tiny pic i thought was a site. I'll have to do some hunting, as i use other forums, and his has boned them too.

  8. #68
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    524
    Well, I managed to get enough 30 cal boolits out of the casting machine to do lever action a couple months ago and have enough ammo for this month. The night match last week ate up my supply of 40 cal pistol boolits, and I have a little more free time after leaving the board and committees at the gun club.

    When tapping the machine to drop stuck boolits, the spru arm would move down and then not hit the pin and reset on the way up. I had to align it by hand and also tap the mold arms with a hammer. The valve leaked a lot at 800 degrees, which is what that NOE mold wanted to not stick so much and to fill out. The spring for the valve was not strong enough for the temporary handle on it and I needed some baskets to catch sprues and boolits.

    A few scraps of steel and a spring out of the spring drawer gave the extra force needed. A scrap of flat stock, leftover from the CNC plasma slats (I have done a lot of projects with that machine) was welded onto the pin that opens the sprue. Now, instead of the sprue arm hitting the wrong side of the pin, it slides up the flat stock and back where it belongs, so that it can be positioned by the pin that sits next to the pour spout. It still opens the same as the flat is the same thickness as the pin.

    The thermocouple went bad for my PID, so I ordered a 10" version and it is working well. Just a bit after the new year's sale at NOE, almost a year ago, I ordered a brass two cavity 40 160 RN PB 2 cavity mold. It was still a virgin, but it popped right in place of that troublesome NOE Saeco 315 copy (I need to figure out why that one worked great and then went to hell).

    For baskets, I wanted something custom sized, sturdy, and ventilated so the boolits could cool. Left over from a small gate build, and living next to the tig welder, out of sight and mind, was a partial sheet of perforated steel screen like what is used on security doors. It measured out at 0.032" thick. There was enough to make the bottom and large sides from that and it was narrow enough at 16" to fit in my home made bender. The ends are solid 16 gauge cold roll sheet that I plasma cut to 4x6 inches. Well, it came out at 3.999 inches wide. They might not be exactly 90 degree corners and I need to verify that the CNC is squared. It is also faster to draw simple parts in cad and cnc cut them than it is to cut the sheet by hand with a plasma.

    While I planned to do quick tack welds with the mig welder to make the baskets, since they just need to function, it turned into an evening of tig practice on thin material. Most of my work is on 16 gauge or heavier, so I needed the practice. The screen felt so thin and was such a pain to tack with mig, for that gate that I did quite a few years ago, that plan B was first on the list.

    These baskets turned into a mini project and I posted it on Garage Journal. Over there, I can upload my pictures to their server since photobucket has gone to ****. By the way, I can see all of my own pictures on this thread, but I have loaded an addon to firefox that is supposed to fix the PB issue. After looking at all the hosting services, I never made up my mind on which to use.

    Hopefully, linking to the other forum is Ok. Here is the project over there: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/...d.php?t=375673

    Most of the pics of the casting pot, and a short video, are on my google drive at: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...v1?usp=sharing

    Here is a short video I got of me running the pot after the new additions: https://youtu.be/c5AQGQn4qkk




    Some people asked about the plasma machine, so here is a video of another part for a customer. The torch crashes at the end and I am working the bugs out of the machine, after upgrading to a hypertherm 65 and machine torch. The end plates for the baskets were cut with the same tip, which is a fine cut with a 0.026" curf. https://youtu.be/lpPjvbeJgwU





    Here is the text copied from the other forum, if you don't want to follow the link above. This CastBoolit post wraps up below:

    Around 17 years ago, I bought a tig welder and then took a class in community college. Since then, I have slowly improved. While I am not a welder by trade, I have done plenty of welding for hobby and work. This week, I went outside my comfort zone and worked on some small/thin material.

    Last year, I started fabricating a bullet casting machine. There is a thread on Castboolits, but now there are no photos thanks to photobucket. There are some bugs to work out of it, but it is close to completion. Still to build were a couple baskets to catch the boolits and sprues. 98% of the machine was welded with Tig, including the 1/4" wall pipe joining the 3/8" base plate. Why? Because, I could and it was good practice.

    Some left over screen from a gate build, quite a few years ago, was just begging to become boolit and sprue baskets. Steel sheet 0.056" (16 gauge) was cnc plasma cut for the ends (4x6 inches), the screen 0.026" (23 gauge) bent, and the parts tig welded together. At first, the plan was to do small tack welds with the mig welder just to hold the parts together. After working with the thin material, that seemed like a less than optimal idea. Tig welding could give more control and a nicer looking weld.


    After playing around with amperage settings on the machine, switching to a 0.040" diameter tungsten with a nicely ground taper, changing the shade setting to 8.5 on my helmet, and replacing the smoke/splatter damaged lenses so I could actually see clearly through them, it all came together. Working with material less than a 16th inch thick is rare for me, but it was nice to have the chance to focus on a challenge, learn, and come out with something half decent looking.

    It just happens that the fab squares (really triangles) for my tab and slot welding table are 4" wide. With two of the largest squares, one was clamped to the table and the other upside down and clamped to that, resulting in a 4" wide shelf about 18" above the table of which the basket parts would fit around and be clamped to. Raising the screen a 32nd of an inch above the end plate gave me some filler metal for the weld. Yes, it is a fusion weld with no filler added. In typical Garage Journal fashion, this went from a simple basket slapped together with a mig welder to something with fully tig welded seams. Go big or go home! The squares help soak up a little heat but were not overly hot and where the recessed joints are in the square, the inside of the basket still looked the same, so maybe the heat was not too much. The amperage was just high enough to get fusion and move at a slow pace but not snail like.

    I should have used my newer glasses to see better and a cheater lens in my helmet might help, if I knew which value would work. This work is so small and close up good vision isn't even enough and great vision is almost a must. That tungsten got quite hot/red and should have been 1/16th or 3/32nds with a fine taper so that the full diameter portion wouldn't have heated up so badly. Lately, I have just used 1/8" and ground it to whatever diameter point was needed, but with the 0.040" and even 0.020" on hand, I tried it. The amperage range on my tig welder is 5-460 amps. The first notch, of three on the welder, is 5-60 but it was not hot enough with the pedal to the metal. Either it isn't putting out as much current as it should (no gauges) or I am just not used to working in the lower amperage range. Normally, I use the second notch which runs from 20-250 or so amps and much of the time I crank the dial up to 100% and just run the pedal where I need it for steel and aluminum 16ga on up. For aluminum, sometimes I'll get into the 3rd notch, but that kills a 50 amp breaker after a few minutes.

    Last night's night match burned up most of my 40 cal ammo and I don't want to cast by hand, so it's time to give this 100 pound casting pot another try. If/when I get all the bugs worked out of the machine, it may become automated with PLCs and pneumatics. The goal is to set it to run and just babysit while powder coating the finished product.

    Would you guys have done anything different to make baskets that can handle many pounds of 800 degree bullets being dropped into them?





    To wrap it up:

    The casting machine worked quite well this time. 660 degrees was good for pure mixed with ww and some tin, which was in the pot from casting 30 cal. Only a handful of boolits stuck in the mold and I didn't prep it from what I can remember......just pullet it out of the box and preheated with a propane torch, carefully. The valve leaked a bit, but was manageable at the lower temperature. The "ramp" for sprue lever was perfect. The machine needs a small variable speed fan to cool the sprues faster and a towel sort of worked to soften the blow as the boolits landed. They were getting dents in them, sometimes even after hitting the towel.

    It seems like it is a good time to order up the parts to automate this thing. A few months back, I wasn't really happy with how the machine ran. With the 30 cal mold, I have not smoked it or used a release agent. Maybe I'll run the old lee pot with no pid just to play with the 30 cal mold to get it to drop boolits again. The other work that needs finished is making the adapters to use the rcbs steel molds. I have a 45 225rn and a 30 115sp to use with this machine. If it was automated, I could run 50-100 cycles at a time while fine tuning the machine. If the boolits weren't great, I wouldn't be out all of that cranking.

    This run of 40 cal was much easier on the body than using the 5 cavity aluminum NOE mold (which I love) and the lee 20. The first part of the run got thrown back as I got the mold up to temp and got a rhythm going. The spouts did slow down and cause fill out issues. A small piece of wire fixed that and made a bigger difference than I was expecting. Then again, the whole purpose of this pot was to have full, consistent flow. Hopefully, it doesn't become a repeat issue on this one. Out of a two or three hours session, I had a small cool whip tub of acceptable boolits. They weren't all perfect but they will do the job and aren't any worse than the factory moly coated bullets I buy. They are all powder coated and ready to be sized in the lee upside down sizer. Pics are in the google drive.

    It's been a while, but thanks for checking out the build. If you have issues with the links for the videos or photos, let me know. Is there a hosting site that is good for posting here when using a desktop computer?
    Last edited by CGT80; 11-22-2017 at 03:25 AM.

  9. #69
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    1,775
    Fine job there, wish i could tig like that, i need to get a real tig first, i just have a torch, gas bottle and an inverter welder

    How do you plan on automating it? timing relays or going computer/plc based? I do love my automated MC.

    I like the idea of vairable speed fans, i use a pair of recycled 110v fans in series, so i can't alter the speed. If i used 12v dc ones, i could have lowered the voltage to slow them down some when needed.

    I am still tinkering with building a bullet master style machine, i'm thinking of pinching your design idea of using a roller bearing for opening the mould instead of the factory bevel cut on the F looking mould holder. It will reduce drag and possibly handle impacts of the shaking action i hope to use by putting bumps on the steel that the roller bearing will run on as it turns. Keep up the fine work and keep us informed, there are always little things like drips or the pour orifices blocking a little, when you get the little things ironed out, it will be awesome, even better automated.

  10. #70
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    524
    For automation, the Hatch PLC touchscreen is the best option I have seen. Originally, I wanted to assemble my own and have him program the PLC, since it wouldn't be a difficult job to build, but with so many projects already going and the fact that Hatch has a very nicely built panel available, I decided to order a complete panel.

    For the amount of shooting I do, running the machine by hand would be fine, but the consistency and reduced work of automating it is much better. If a batch of boolits isn't up to par, they can get dumped in and run again without wasting all the effort to crank the thing. It would be nice to sit there and size or PC them as the casting machine is running. Some shooting buddies want me to cast rifle boolits for them, but it will only happen if I don't have to crank the handle.

    With an inverter TIG, you are ahead of me. Mine was built in 1965 and is transformer based and weighs a thousand pounds with the bottle and cooler, but has variable frequency for aluminum welding.......it varies based on the input power, so it's probably almost always dead on at 60 herts

  11. #71
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    1,775
    Hatch's panel is well tested and refined, it can't be faulted, you won't regret it.

    Mine is all run with an arduino uno with code that Kayak1 was kind enough to share with me. It made the build very cheap. The arduino is not an industrial computer, and is quite suspectiable to "noise" from electrical devices like a grinder or lathe can make it hang up. A true PLC is far more robust, but the arduino works for me.

    I'd like an AC tig so i can weld Aluminium. I don't have a foot pedal, so i get a crater at the end of a weld too. I'd love a fancy ac/dc unit with all the adjustments to weld aluminium cleanly and have HF start, but for the amount i weld, the stick welder and MIG do all i need, just not as pretty.

    Rifle projectiles will need that little bit of extra care to keep the quality, pistol don't seem to matter. Mine shoot better than i do.

    Jmorris coats and sizes while his home made MC is running away. He uses Hi-Tek

  12. #72
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    S.E. OKLA.
    Posts
    448
    Hey CGT80,,enjoy reading your thread,,very informative,,i do have a question,,i really like the solenoid on the pour lever,,"I wan't one on my MK2" instead of this air operated thing'y.Would it be possible to get a # & mfg. for the solenoid?

    Thank's keep up the good work.

    Later,,,,Hootmix.

  13. #73
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    524
    Quote Originally Posted by Hootmix View Post
    Hey CGT80,,enjoy reading your thread,,very informative,,i do have a question,,i really like the solenoid on the pour lever,,"I wan't one on my MK2" instead of this air operated thing'y.Would it be possible to get a # & mfg. for the solenoid?

    Thank's keep up the good work.

    Later,,,,Hootmix.
    Thanks for checking it out!


    Are you left or right handed?
    What year were you born?
    Where were you born?
    What model number would you assign your right hand?



    Maybe I forgot to mention it, but I was pulling the lever with my hand. The lever is right above the dillon 550 ball handle so my hand stays on the ball and I reach up and back a bit to pull it and let the lead out.

    When I recorded the video, I wondered if anyone would think the lead pour was already automated.

    It woudn't be hard to use a micro switch and actuator..........if you can figure out which one to use.......and set it up for manual crank and auto pour. It might be possible to make a linkage to mechanically trigger the valve when the mold is all the way back.

    Hatch's plc will run an air valve and air cylinder for the lead pour.

    Would the actuator for car door locks work? They are cheap and 12 volt, plus it seems they will push or pull until the lock mechanism stops, without damage to the actuator. I'm not sure what the life expectancy is.

    Wish I could help more.

  14. #74
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    S.E. OKLA.
    Posts
    448
    Hey CGT80,,thank's for the holler back my mistake,, "I,, thought I saw a solenoid in one of your neat video's" hang with it.


    Later,,,,Hootmix.

  15. #75
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    brisbane ,qld,australia
    Posts
    2,125
    Some 30 years ago I scrapped out the contents of a Tech College store before demolition,and included were a number of small training die casting machines using a small automatically clamped die block,and several old Herbert Reed Prentice small capacity pressure die casting machines using standard hydraulically clamped dies with cooling passages.In other words,exactly what you are building,with an out put of tons per hour.The mold blocks are a bit spendy,though.

  16. #76
    ADMIN



    HATCH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lexington, SC
    Posts
    6,700
    Quote Originally Posted by CGT80 View Post
    Would the actuator for car door locks work? They are cheap and 12 volt, plus it seems they will push or pull until the lock mechanism stops, without damage to the actuator. I'm not sure what the life expectancy is.
    You would need between 20 and 30 lbs of force.
    This is based on the size of the air cylinder that I use for lead pour and the air pressure that I have operated it on (70 PSI)
    It may take less force.

    If you google this -> Solenoid Shaved Door Pop Handle / Latch Popper Kit Hot Rod Rat Rod Complete 75lb
    it will give you something I think might work for you.
    Not sure if its a push or pull design and not sure of the throw.

  17. #77
    ADMIN



    HATCH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lexington, SC
    Posts
    6,700
    Looks like its a pull design.

  18. #78
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    5,268
    How did the bullets turn out from the video without anything holding the mold together except the spring below?

  19. #79
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    524
    Quote Originally Posted by jmorris View Post
    How did the bullets turn out from the video without anything holding the mold together except the spring below?
    Good!

    Here is a run from earlier this year of an NOE Saeco 315 https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AX...HrklaMVDcfjr3v

    The run in the video was NOE 40 cal 160 rn https://drive.google.com/open?id=1k3...Yc96Zz7UyLrrbI

    I don't have any shots of the naked boolits, in 40.

    The bases were not filled out the best, on some, but that was due to the spout getting plugged slightly. After running a wire up into the spout, it poured at full speed again and the bases were good.

    It is just two springs at the bottom of the mold arms, that hold it closed, but there is good tension. I don't think it takes a lot of force to keep them closed, but then again if you try to open the mold by hand, you can really feel the springs working.

  20. #80
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    524
    Here are a couple videos of the Hatch automation PLC/touchscreen running the casting machine. The first boolits weren't that great, but after a while, I got it to throw nice boolits. You will see that I mounted things a bit different than the master caster. Instead of trying to get a perfect seal on the valve, I added drip shields to the machine and a catch tray. Even with a perfect valve, there would be times when I would want to let the lead flow as I adjusted, and stuff can happen. If a major leak happened, the tray should contain it.

    Instead of making adapters for RCBS molds, I opted to order NOE molds in 45 ca. H&G 68 and 9mm 124tc as they will swap right out and I plan to use a number of those boolits. The 45 270 SAA will continue to be cast by hand, for my big revolver, and I rarely shoot the M1 carbine, so those can be done by hand.

    The machine turned out very nice and I did wonder if there would be any difficulties that would prevent it from working out. A year ago, or so, I wanted a master caster but thought just having a huge pot would be a step up. With only pictures and videos of other machines to go on, I knew building this could be quite a challenge.

    The next little task will be to build a permanent counter weight with some 2x2 inch tube, likely filled with shot and a cap/plug so it can be adjusted if needed. The raw steel looks fine, but I'm not a fan of rust, so it will get a couple shades of high heat auto paint that I have sitting on the shelf. It will be stored in my loading room/utility room next to the garage, but I don't know if I will run it in that room. A box fan in the window provides lots of ventilation when I cast in there with the little pot, but I could run it on the steel cart that I will move it on, or just put it back on the welding table and use the swamp cooler across from the roll up door for ventilation. I don't plan to run it more than every few months or so. My style is to do a lot of casting or reloading at one time and not need to load that particular round for 6 months to a year.

    The Hatch panel worked great. Sometimes the mold arm will bounce a couple times when it returns to the up position and it will trip the bullet counter more than once. It isn't worth going nuts trying to fix it, as I can just let the machine run while I'm standing next to it and stop as needed. For the first run, I sorted through bullets and made small changes to the flow on the cylinders and the timing on the touch screen. The temp on the pot has to be kept low enough to not have a lot of drips. A drip in an empty mold, half a second before lead pour, will create a wrinkled nose. It is set with a 1 second delay to let the mold stop moving before it pours.

    When the other molds get here, I'll try them, and I haven't figured out that sticking 30 cal mold yet. The PID is wired for 240v and the TC stuck in 50 pounds of lead (half a pot), so I may order another PID for the Lee pot to leave with 120v ends and a 6" TC, instead of the 10" TC on the big pot.

    Thanks for checking it out. Let me know if you have any questions.

    https://youtu.be/KNymkXBbVPs



    https://youtu.be/FhpcDD839GY

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check