Does lube in loaded ammo go bad?

[Gene Pool]

Gentlemen,

I came across some 38 special wadcutter ammo that I had reloaded 36 years ago, and when my son fired it he got significant leading in the barrel of his pistol. Back when the ammo was assembled, I don't recall ever getting any leading from that load. The bullets were some I had personally cast using Lyman #2 equivalent lead and sized/lubed with a RCBS Lube-A-Matic. I don't recall the exact lube I used at the time, but it probably was Lyman's or RCBS's basic lube--back then I pretty much stuck with name brand products.

I am puzzled as to why the bullets are now leading the barrel. The ammo has been stored in quality boxes, but it has spent many Texas summers in my garage and shop where temperatures reach 100+ degrees. Could the lube have dried out or gone bad in loaded ammo during that time? The ammo fired perfect--it's just the lube that is in question.

I am relatively new here and this may be an old topic. If so, please forgive me for bothering you. I try to do homework before asking questions.

Thank you in advance for your comments.

Gene Pool

[JimB..]

Several possibilities. First pull apart a round and look at the lube, my guess is that it is hard and crusty. Second is that you probably sized them to the gun you were shooting 39 years ago and the gun he's shooting may have a slightly larger bore.

Just my quick thoughts, good luck.

[Taterhead]

I pulled down some old 38 reloads from decades ago that someone gave to me. The lube in those reloads had pretty much disintegrated. What was left was sort of a dusty substance. No idea about the type of lube since the reloader had passed on.

I don't make a habit of shooting reloads from others, so i pulled them down for brass and primers.

The same thought came to mind about bullet fit too, as JimB mentioned.

[Bullwolf]

I've wondered about this often as well.

Back in the early 1990's I loaded up 500 9mmm using Hercules Unique powder, and I tumble lubed them in good old LLA. (Lee Liquid Alox) I put em in an ammo can in the shed, and then promptly forgot all about them. Storage temps are hot in the summer, freezing in the winter. 100's - 30's °F

I found em and took them out nearly 20 years later, pulled a boolit and shot some.

Here's a pic of a 20+ year old pulled Alox lubed 9mm boolit.



If I was to describe the condition of the Alox, I might use the word varnish.

They still shoot fine, don't lead up the Beretta, and the Alox has finally dried. *kidding*

I shoot a few of the Unique + Alox lubed 9mm boolits to see how they are holding up ever couple years now.

The whole thing made me wonder how say Lyman Orange Magic, or one of the other commercial lubes would hold up after such a long period. I have some commercial cast blue hard crayon like wax lube boolits in a coffee can that I've recovered from my backstop laying around under somewhat unsavory conditions. Other than dirt and debris sticking to them, the lube is still there in the grooves, but I wonder what would happen to say a softer lube over a longish period of time?

Alox is apparently the cockroach of the boolit lube kingdom.



- Bullwolf

[NuJudge]

I would suspect that there is a bullet fit with the revolver problem, with the bullets being smaller than groove diameter, or the revolver cylinder throats being smaller than the groove diameter, or both. There also is a constriction caused at the rear of some revolver barrels by the threading operation, which might cause a Lead bullet to be undersize the rest of the barrel. If any of these problems exists, the blow-by will cause Leading.

Look at the pattern of the Leading. When I have a lubricant failure, it usually shows as serious Leading closer to the muzzle. Undersize bullets will shot Leading the whole length of the barrel.

I have some 50/50 Alox-Beeswax that I got from my Dad and dates to the late 1960s and it looks, feels & smells the same as the huge quantity I bought in the 1990s. I don't see any difference on target.

[6bg6ga]

Your going to get 50 different answers her but I loaded some 45acp back in the mid 80's and it still shoots fine. I would say that temp, humidity, and keeping ammo in a cool dry place would aid it life.

[w5pv]

Shoot often and use Ben's Red and you won't have problems.I shoot around a 100 rounds eveyday weather premitting and on weekends when the neighbors are home I don't shoot without looking to see if they are inside and not in the yard.Be considerate of others and a lot of the problems will go away.

[Shiloh]

Alox boolit lube with either Bullseye or Unique, is acrid in the indoor range. The newer and more circulation fans help though.

SHiloh

[commando223]

Interesting I've always wondered about this.

[M-Tecs]

A while back I purchased a bunch of old reloading tools from an estate. The newest items and price tags was 1976. Included was 7 or 8 different types lubes. Some looked like they had been manufactured last week and some had dried up to almost nothing.

Some lubs don't stand up to time well and some do.

[leadman]

I had lyman Orange Magic go bad in my garage here in Phoenix in just a few years. Dries out real easy. Lars Carnuba Red hold up well with no issues.
The Magma hard lube will probably be around whenever a new species takes over this earth! If they use in in guns they will have leading though.

[Fishman]

I had lyman Orange Magic go bad in my garage here in Phoenix in just a few years. Dries out real easy. Lars Carnuba Red hold up well with no issues.
The Magma hard lube will probably be around whenever a new species takes over this earth! If they use in in guns they will have leading though.

Leadman, that last part made me laugh!

I have also had the same issue with orange magic in bullets waiting to be loaded. I personally don't trust it for more than a couple years now although when fresh it does fine. My lubes from Lars and randyrat are good to go though.

[wadcutter]

I shot some 218 Bee round my grandfather or great-grandfather loaded in the 1940's. The lube certainly went bad in those. In some cases it dripped down into the powder making the load very weak. This was lube made from beeswax, rosin and I don't know what else.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if repeated temperature cycles up and over 100f affect your old lube. What color is it?

[Gene Pool]

I have not yet pulled a bullet to see the color. The next time my son and visit he will bring the ammo and then I will have it to do further examination. He will also bring the pistol and we will check the diameter of the cylinders. When I get more information I will post it on this thread.

[Metroxfi]

I remember reading somewhere, I cant find the source now, that some of the early Japanese rounds were notorious for being inaccurate and severe leading. I had nothing to do with the rifle itself, or the bullet, or the load. The cast bullets loaded in them were lubed with a bullet lube mixed with a base of 'Japan wax' which was a byproduct of processing some kind of berries, possibly bayberries. Boy, I wish I could find where I read about this, anyway they found that the berry wax was literally rotting and putrifying in the loaded round and therefore losing all of its properties as a bullet lube. I think there is a possibility of the same thing happening with a lot of other types of bases and additives in some bullet lubes. Tallows, certain waxes, some organic oils and things like that will over time either dry out or actually become rancid.

The first batch of bullet lube I made myself was 50/50 beeswax and automotive grease with moly. Over a couple of years the lube began to 'sweat' and had tiny little spheres on the surface, when wiped it was very greasy. I think when I mixed it all up I used more grease than the wax could hold and it was gradually working it's way out of the mix. Using more wax or maybe a stearate might have helped, but the effects didn't show up until a couple of years after I first mixed it. I haven't had any issues with the loaded rounds, so far.

[Gene Pool]

Gentlemen,

My apologies for taking so long to get back on this. We traveled to west Texas where my son lives last weekend and I was able to bring the gun and ammo back for testing.

The first thing I need to do is correct my original post on this subject. When my son told me of the extreme leading, I thought it was some of my cast and lubed bullets manufactured back in the early 80's. As it turns out, it was some Speer BBWC (bevel base wad cutter) bullets I had loaded during the same period.

I pulled some bullets and checked them and the powder charge to make sure it was what I had marked on the box. It was.

Here is the load and pistol data:

3.4 gr. Red Dot
148 gr. Speer BBWC
CCI Small Pistol primer

His pistol is a mint 4" Smith & Wesson model 10 (no dash number) manufactured in 1957. The bore is perfect.

The things I noted were:

(1) his cylinders measured .3585
(2) the bullets measured .3560-.3570
(3) the Speer lube was hard and dry

I shot some of my current cast and lubed bullets sized .358 and they shot good with no leading.

So, my conclusion is the undersized bullets with hard, dry lube was the reason he got leading.

If you have any other ideas, please reply with them.

Thank you,
Gene Pool

[Bill*B]

No experience with loads assembled 3 decades ago, but 30-30 rifle rounds that I assembled 3 years ago still work fine. I did get substantial leading with some commercial .45ACP bullets that sat in my garage for 5 or 6 years before loading. They did not lead when new, so I assume that their lube had dried out.