modifying FMJ bullets

[Oklahoma Rebel]

has any one ever tried grinding the tip off of a traditional cup and core FMJ bullet for hunting? if it is done evenly so that it spins without wobble, I think it would be ok, but I am just wondering about performance, as to wether it would mushroom, separate, or just plain shatter or fall apart? thankyou, Travis

[jcren]

Many fmj are open at the back. Heard stories of guys flat pointing surplus 06 ammo and the core being pushed out and jacket left in the barrel.

[cuzinbruce]

It has been done before. Some things to watch out for are armor piercing, with a steel core. Other nasties like tracers, incendiary. Some of the FMJ's have an open bottom, the lead core shows on the base. How it will all work depends on the particular FMJ ammo you are talking about. They might or might not be worthwhile. Don't forget that FMJ's were not designed to expand and might have quite a thick jacket. My advice would be to just buy regular softpoints to load hunting ammo with. They don't have to be the most expensive ones to work OK.
That is my 2 cents on the matter.
Good Luck!

[DanishM1Garand]

I've seen bullets swaged turning a FMJ with a lead base into a lead point bullet. I did not fire them and have no idea if they would expand. Elmer Keith talked about loading pulled FMJ bullets backward during WW2 as other bullets were unavailible for hunting.

Bulk bullets for hunting and plinking are cheap enough.

[Outpost75]

Truth be told, the performance FMJ military bullets on game is quite good, without attempting any changes. Illegal almost everywhere, but if circumstances were such that I had to feed my family and it was use it or starve, I would not worry about bullet performance.

http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/papers/m...ckler.unk.html

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/b.../wounding.html

[btreanor]

I would avoid turning around FMJ bullets to show the exposed base because it will greatly increase chamber pressures due to the geometry of the very long "boat tail" you've created.

[Hamish]

I would avoid turning around FMJ bullets to show the exposed base because it will greatly increase chamber pressures due to the geometry of the very long "boat tail" you've created.

Ive read of base first loadings as far back as World War I.

Could you please explain how this would increase chamber pressure? Since pressure fills a space evenly throughout a given space, I am having trouble understanding your premise.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've seen bullets swaged turning a FMJ with a lead base into a lead point bullet. I did not fire them and have no idea if they would expand. Elmer Keith talked about loading pulled FMJ bullets backward during WW2 as other bullets were unavailible for hunting.

Bulk bullets for hunting and plinking are cheap enough.

Both of these may be possibilities, but I wouldn't try to swage a pointed tip (where the jacket is often thicker than elsewhere) into the middle of a flat base. I think it should work well if your die punch has a deep pimple, to leave a reduced diameter point in the middle of the flat base. As for simply reversing the bullet, I have heard of it being done in war by those who wanted to increase wounding effect - foreigners and that sort - and also to have a better chance of penetrating sniper shields. The latter, if it works at all, I think would only do be superior if the angle of impact was oblique. I would guess that it would benefit from close matching of bullet to groove diameter.

I don't think the core is liable to leave the jacket behind if only a little is removed, and that might be enough for considerable improvement. After all, the turned-over rim of the jacket is likely to have as much area as the exposed lead. But I would want to test a good many, either looking through the bore every time or seeing a new hole on target, before I risked rapid fire.

[btreanor]

Hamish:

1. Depending on the throat and the geometry (ogive) of the bullet, seating a bullet backwards might very well require that more of the bullet be held within the case. The net result being a bullet seated deeper which will increase chamber pressure. And who publishes data on the OAL of cartridges with bullets seated backwards?

2. Because it's been done before with poor (unsafe) results. His explanation about how the gases expand on the base of the bullet at the beginning of the video makes sense. If you watch toward the end of the video, you can see that he flattened primers and cracked cases:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...s-bullets-try/

[Geezer in NH]

I have never had that effect from reversing bullets I call bull on it from my own experience.

[btreanor]

I hope it works well for you. I just don't think it's a good idea, but to each his own...

[Geezer in NH]

Nd I think diff know what you mean

[Kosh75287]

I just wouldn't. Too little pay off and way too much risk.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

in my opinion, bad idea. To many other options available.
CF

[barrabruce]

Apparently
If you grind a spoon shaped notch out the side of the tip they will still fly straight enough and that will induce yaw through the tip collapsing to one side when it hits something.
Never tried it thou as I have no pointy jacket bullets to try


And you know how reliable statements are that start with apparently

[Ballistics in Scotland]

In theory you would get a tight but perhaps acceptably sized corkscrew path, as the effect operates on each side in turn. It would have to be a very small spoon-shaped irregularity, or it could induce a serious wobble, in which case nobody can tell what might happen.

Streamlining the rear of a bullet to a much greater degree than the boat-tails we know is such an obvious measure that there must be some good reason why we aren't all doing it. I can see three sources of harm from a long ogive at the back.

1. As already mentioned, the long intrusion into the powder space and short case neck grip on the bullet.

2. Pressure acts at right angles to the surface on which it operates, and therefore more sideways than forwards. There will be less tendency for the bullet, if it is an imperfect fit, to upset and seal the bore.

3. If the bullet oscillates in flight, I think the oscillation will build up worse and worse, to become tail-wagging. Again the effect is likely to be widening corkscrewing.

[5.7 MAN]

I'm pretty sure Elmer Keith wrote about loading FMJ bullets backwards for use on game. I doubt swapping ends with a 150 grain FMJ in a 30-06 would make much difference pressure wise.

[rondog]

I'm reasonably certain that if you put an FMJ in the right place(s), you'll easily have venison in the freezer.

[uncle dino]

A typical Fmj bullet shape can be changed in a swage die..even hollow pointed..without any trouble. Pistol calibers would be better to do, if hollow pointing. Punches are typically larger and stronger. D

[Chihuahua Floyd]

Rounding,
While the FMJ will kill, it is not considered a stopping round. You may kill something, but chances are you will not find it. Unless you hit the spine or brain. FMJ works more like an click, usually zero expansion, wound channel closes up, no or very little blood trail unless you hit a major bone.
You can kill, but doubt you will have meat to show for it.
There are so Manny better bullets available it's not worth it.
CF