Love Your Enemy

[WRideout]

Love your enemy
Matthew 5:44


The striper run had begun up the Sacramento River, and the fish had made it as far as Yuba City, in the northern Central Valley of California. The sand bar I stood on had a few other fishermen, mostly older locals who watched their lines from lawn chairs set up near their propped-up poles. We were already past the time of the cottonwood bloom, which signaled the start of the shad run, and now as we approached summer, the stripers, as well as the sturgeon, were moving up from San Francisco Bay to spawn in the frigid river. I rigged up my tackle with a large chunk of sardine and a half-pound of lead, pitched it into the racing current, and propped the surf rod into its holder, stuck in the sand. I stood, silently sipping coffee from a thermos while watching intently for the telltale movement of the nylon line that indicated a bite.

I was lost in reverie when a voice behind me asked, “You catch anything today?” I turned to see an older man in jeans and blue shirt behind me. He did not have a pole in his hands and it was obvious he was just checking out the action. “Nothing yet, I just got here,” I replied. We traded a little more small talk during which I alluded to the fact that I was a college student from Chico State, using my GI bill stipend. “I was in the army,” he said. “WWII; I was in the engineers.” Then he added quickly, “But I never killed a man.” He told about going into Germany, then staying in the occupation forces after VE day. He said they had built a prison camp for former SS soldiers whom he described as “tough SOBs.”

“One day I just wanted something to do, so I borrowed a jeep, took my M1, and went off to the woods. I bagged three deer out of those woods, but I couldn’t really take them back, so I went looking for someone to give them to. I found a farmhouse where an old couple lived. They had nothing, so I gave them the deer. The old man just looked at me with tears running down his face and said ‘Danke, danke’ over and over. That man was no enemy of mine.”

We talked for a few more minutes; then the war veteran walked farther down the sand bar, and queried the other fishermen along the way. I stayed a few more hours but the fishing was off that day, and eventually I gave up, packed my gear, and drove the hour or so upriver to Chico, past green flooded fields of rice, and well-tended farmhouses. So ended my meeting with one of the most Christian men I have ever known.

Wayne

[45-70 Chevroner]

My step father was in WW-2 also and he had such a hatred for the Germans that I don't think he ever gave it up to his last breath. He was a nice man beyond that though. I am quit sure that he had PTSD, a syndrome that wasn't recognized as such until after the Vietnam war. I really don't know when the term came about though.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Only thing wrong with that story is that I think fish would expect food, in that current, to be moving a lot faster than a half-pound of lead.

In my childhood I knew a man who got into the army with the "Daily Mail" for the 4th August 1914 wadded up in his boots to make the height. He was undoubtedly smaller, weaker, more pathologically shy than the female soldiers of today, and afraid of everything except death. They made him a sniper because of his talents and to keep him away from the violence. His shooting was almost miraculous even in his sixties, and you can't buy a way to do better wing-shooting with a rifle than he did with his featherweight thumb-trigger Winchester .22, which cost him one pound, seventeen shillings and sixpence. But he was emphatic that shooting was the least of it. Like Jeeves the butler, nobody ever saw him enter or leave a room. He just materialised.

It was of great importance to him that he went through the war - no tours of duty there - without ever killing anyone he could send home to take his pension. His friends, who had been more conventional soldiers, approved both of his attitude and of conscientious objectors, if their conscience had applied before there was any chance of being shot at. They believed firmly that most German soldiers were people very much like themselves. They believed in the Belgian atrocities - correctly we now know, though there were fabrications too - but insisted that you can find the same kind of subhumans in every country, and it all depends whether those higher up choose to use them. They claimed - sincerely I think - that if a soldier resorts to "conscript tricks", Mr. Luck would take against him. One of them kept a silver flute for a young Bavarian prisoner, and sent it back after the war, because the hospital attendants were notoriously sticky-fingered.

Harry Patch, the last surviving combat infantryman of WW1, dictated a most interesting book which is very much his own at the age of 109. I think he had strong feelings for his comrades and his regiment, but was convinced that war is when nations opt for murder. He was No2 on a Lewis gun team, which means technician and occasional gunner, and a very good shot. He and his No1 made a deal that whenever possible they would shoot at men's legs, to give them a chance of survival. One day in the Salient they had the gun dismantled, and a German charged them. Harry shot him in the shoulder with his revolver and he dropped his rifle, but he kept running, and Harry knew he meant to kick the gun parts into the mud, which meant some time when he couldn't protect his comrades. So he shot him in the thigh and ankle. He might easily have died anyway, but it was important to Harry, more than ninety years later, that he gave him at least a chance of survival.

[WRideout]

Only thing wrong with that story is that I think fish would expect food, in that current, to be moving a lot faster than a half-pound of lead.


In my childhood I knew a man who got into the army with the "Daily Mail" for the 4th August 1914 wadded up in his boots to make the height. He was undoubtedly smaller, weaker, more pathologically shy than the female soldiers of today, and afraid of everything except death. They made him a sniper because of his talents and to keep him away from the violence. His shooting was almost miraculous even in his sixties, and you can't buy a way to do better wing-shooting with a rifle than he did with his featherweight thumb-trigger Winchester .22, which cost him one pound, seventeen shillings and sixpence. But he was emphatic that shooting was the least of it. Like Jeeves the butler, nobody ever saw him enter or leave a room. He just materialised.

It was of great importance to him that he went through the war - no tours of duty there - without ever killing anyone he could send home to take his pension. His friends, who had been more conventional soldiers, approved both of his attitude and of conscientious objectors, if their conscience had applied before there was any chance of being shot at. They believed firmly that most German soldiers were people very much like themselves. They believed in the Belgian atrocities - correctly we now know, though there were fabrications too - but insisted that you can find the same kind of subhumans in every country, and it all depends whether those higher up choose to use them. They claimed - sincerely I think - that if a soldier resorts to "conscript tricks", Mr. Luck would take against him. One of them kept a silver flute for a young Bavarian prisoner, and sent it back after the war, because the hospital attendants were notoriously sticky-fingered.

Harry Patch, the last surviving combat infantryman of WW1, dictated a most interesting book which is very much his own at the age of 109. I think he had strong feelings for his comrades and his regiment, but was convinced that war is when nations opt for murder. He was No2 on a Lewis gun team, which means technician and occasional gunner, and a very good shot. He and his No1 made a deal that whenever possible they would shoot at men's legs, to give them a chance of survival. One day in the Salient they had the gun dismantled, and a German charged them. Harry shot him in the shoulder with his revolver and he dropped his rifle, but he kept running, and Harry knew he meant to kick the gun parts into the mud, which meant some time when he couldn't protect his comrades. So he shot him in the thigh and ankle. He might easily have died anyway, but it was important to Harry, more than ninety years later, that he gave him at least a chance of survival.

In that water, something that is standing still in the current looks like it must be swimming, and therefore, food.

In every war, there are stories of atrocities; some soldiers get punished for it, others get away clean. I grew up with the Viet Nam war that the US was embroiled in for over a decade. It is interesting that now many articles of clothing we buy here are labeled "Made in Viet Nam." I never served in combat, although I trained for it for many years. As an army medic I have seen people die, and it is never a thing to be taken lightly.

Wayne

[Drew P]

I wish they would train police to shoot legs these days.

[Walter Laich]

I wish they would train police to shoot legs these days.

When I was in 'legs' were non-Airborne soldiers

police shoot to STOP the threat meaning they shoot at center of mass. That way if their off a bit they can still end the situation.
Shooting at legs won't guarantee the person will stop and since legs are so much smaller misses are more likely. Bystanders are at greater risk.

When people are shooting at you, your training kicks in and aiming at center of mass is the best way to stop them.

I was lucky enough to serve in RVN with 1st Cav...Charlie was a good shot

[Drew P]

When I was in 'legs' were non-Airborne soldiers

police shoot to STOP the threat meaning they shoot at center of mass. That way if their off a bit they can still end the situation.
Shooting at legs won't guarantee the person will stop and since legs are so much smaller misses are more likely. Bystanders are at greater risk.

When people are shooting at you, your training kicks in and aiming at center of mass is the best way to stop them.

I was lucky enough to serve in RVN with 1st Cav...Charlie was a good shot

Well I don't want to derail this thread because it has such a good feeling but there are people alive today, soldiers who were a "threat", because these men risked their lives a little extra to make sure they had a chance at life. That serves two purposes, it keeps life alive, and reduced ptsd for those behind the trigger. It's astounding to me that we can't implement some way of doing this concept in our own daily police work. Why should cops be charged with the task of execution? And how many people are wrongly killed because of this policy. It's insane and it's wrong, and this post clearly lays out the reasons.
Thank you those who have served!

[Henry VIII]

Those of us who live in areas of the world where violent death from a huge, armed, out of control criminal element take great exception of the "shoot to wound" foolishness. While I understand the NW USA is a very safe place compared to here, we did see the riots in Portland. Had I been there, defending myself, family or property, there would be no question of both shooting center mass and shooting until the threat was ended. Police are not charged with the "task of execution". There are charged to "Protect and Serve" (the law abiding community). When those who have never stood between the criminal and the victim are allowed to set foolish policy (shoot to wound), good people are subjected to the "carnage" (great choice of a word) as you are seeing in Chicago. It has been shown there are three classes of people in the world. Sheep, wolves and sheepdogs. When the sheepdogs are muzzled, the wolves are free to kill at will. In your country (unlike mine) the sheepdogs have (barely) been unmuzzled. Across the world others are trying to turn loose the sheepdogs. We should all wish them well lest we decend into anarchy. "America, the last great hope for mankind !"

[NoAngel]

I wish they would train police to shoot legs these days.

When scum bags quit breaking the law and stop threatening other peoples lives, then police can start shooting water pistols. Until then, put the scum down fast as possible. If they die in the process...mehh, oh well. Wages of sin is death.

Exodus 22:2 is a good one here.
If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.

[W.R.Buchanan]

There is something to be said for purging the Gene Pool. In some places here in the US life has become as valueless and meaningless as it is in many 3rd world countries.

Those places need to be cleaned up and unfortunately the only really effective way to do that is to eliminate the problem at the root of it. And the root of it is,,, people who have been educated by whomever that life is meaningless." You can blame Society or Obama or whomever you chose,,, but the fact remains that when you teach someone, virtually from birth, to hate someone else, it is virtually impossible to eliminate that mindset. It can be done over time but the percentages of success are low and as a result, it seldom is accomplished. The main reason being,,, "extremely low cost to benefit, and it takes generations to accomplish." Politicians eventually get tired of throwing money at a problem that never gets solved.

Most times it is best to just cut out the diseased portion and hope that the body will heal itself.

What you saw in Germany and Japan before WWII was exactly the same thing as you are seeing in the Middle East today. And look at those two countries now. They are among the most prosperous in the world.

The way that the Allies stopped this movement was to essentially annihilate the civilian and military populations of those countries and kill the Ideology at its source. The people.

The only way the world will rid itself of the current problem with ideology is to do the same thing. The Palestinians and Militant Muslims will never agree to peace with Israel or the rest of the world. It ain't gonna happen! Been going on for thousands of years. since Abraham. They teach their children to hate Jews and Free Nations from a very early age. They are fanatical about this hate and it's not like you can just go in and selectively eliminate the worst of them and hope to succeed as there are many layers of the believers in their society. You have to make a very serious statement that the world will no longer tolerate this ideology. Just as happened in WWII.

Two Atom Bombs stopped Japan, and Firebombing Civilian Cities and the two front invasion of Germany finally brought to it's knees and killed the ideology that drove them.

It cost between 60 and 80 Million lives to end that conflict. If you think that the current problem can be solved with fewer casualties you are naïve. A 2-3 generation break in the line is the only thing that will change it.

It is a proven fact that when it comes to Mankind, some kind of major conflict surfaces every 20-50 years,,, usually driven by some bastardization of a Religion, or a Megalomaniac. Been happening for 4-6000 years.

You'd think after all that time that the Human Race would have learned something.

Please to understand, I don't say these things lightly, I try to deal with reality in present time as "that is, what is." But when it comes to solving a problem, make no mistake, the only viable solution is the one that completely cures the problem. You've seen what the half measures over the last 8 years have yielded.

When it comes to making the decision to eliminate a large number of people, it must weigh heavily on the men who ultimately make that decision. And as it was in WWII the decision should be made with respect to Saving Lives rather than destroying them.

It will take a much bigger man than me to make those decisions.

As far as loving your enemy, you can do that,,, Right after you convince them to STOP trying to kill you!

Randy

[NoAngel]

Well put!