Range Incident: Thoughts on what the problem may be?

[7Acres]

Long story short my father in law was putting a few rounds through my Kimber .45ACP Ultra Carry II. The slide locked back and he assumed the magazine was empty. He released the slide lock and the barrel came forward but failed to put the safety back on. He was admiring his tight group and I was standing next to him agreeing it was a good group. BANG! He shot the ground right between his foot and mine.

I have a light trigger and he apparently had his finger on the trigger. He concedes that he must have since the gun doesn't go bang unless the hammer drops. And I saw the slide lock back so we both agree on that point too. Apparently the slide locked back when there was still one round in the magazine. I've put thousands of rounds through this gun. It's my primary carry gun. I've never had the slide lock back unless the magazine was empty. Can you offer me some suggestions on what may have happened so I can find and fix the issue?

And finally, he has reiterated a few times already the standard rule that you always treat a gun as if it's loaded. I don't like learning lessons like that the hard way. Thankfully there were no injures.

[45workhorse]

The position of his thumb caused the slide to lock back even with rounds left in the magazinre

[shoot-n-lead]

The position of his thumb caused the slide to lock back even with rounds left in the magazinre

Bingo!

He pushed the slide latch up.

[smokeywolf]

Long story short my father in law was putting a few rounds through my Kimber .45ACP Ultra Carry II. The slide locked back and he assumed the magazine was empty. He released the slide lock and the barrel came forward but failed to put the safety back on. He was admiring his tight group and I was standing next to him agreeing it was a good group. BANG! He shot the ground right between his foot and mine.

I have a light trigger and he apparently had his finger on the trigger. He concedes that he must have since the gun doesn't go bang unless the hammer drops. And I saw the slide lock back so we both agree on that point too. Apparently the slide locked back when there was still one round in the magazine. I've put thousands of rounds through this gun. It's my primary carry gun. I've never had the slide lock back unless the magazine was empty. Can you offer me some suggestions on what may have happened so I can find and fix the issue?

And finally, he has reiterated a few times already the standard rule that you always treat a gun as if it's loaded. I don't like learning lessons like that the hard way. Thankfully there were no injures.

Thousands of rounds and the pistol has never done this while you were shooting it. Although I would do a very careful check of the gun and the magazine; put another couple of hundred rounds through it. The obvious condition that has changed was, someone else was firing the gun. For this reason, like 45workhorse, I would suspect your FiL's hand (thumb) position on the pistol while he was shooting.

I always do a visual check of the chamber and mag when the slide locks back on my 1911.

[The Governor]

Your FIL pulled the trigger and the Muzzel was not pointed in a safe direction.
All bets are on him doing something stupid.

[Artful]

Without examining the firearm all indications are it was the shooter. Both in locking the slide open while shooting and the N.D.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Does it have an extended slide release lever? Like this one?

Attachment 183695
Click to enlarge.

[shoot-n-lead]

I always do a visual check of the chamber when the slide locks back on my 1911.

I always do it on any gun.

[pietro]

.

Lesson learned - I'm just glad that the two of you should live to see the New Year.........


FWIW, many shooters, relatively new to a 1911 (& other handguns) will grip the gun too high and/or move a finger (whatever), which will move something like the slide stop under recoil.(IOW, inadvertently)


.

[Pumpkinheaver]

The position of his thumb caused the slide to lock back even with rounds left in the magazinre

This.

[7Acres]

Hard to argue with that logic. He did some Googling on his cell phone and reported back that apparently 1911s have issues with slides locking back before they're supposed to. I looked at one forum post he showed me and I couldn't make the gun do what that post said causes that particular person's issue (the round pushed forward in the magazine and not seated against the rear of the magazine). That seemed like an asinine assertion to me.

Anyway, in looking at the gun just now the slide lock lever will rest and will not want to catch and lock unless something pushes up on it. Either the mag follower after the last round has been ejected or something external to the gun (operator's thumb). Is this correct?

Also, you guys would know... Are some percentage of 1911s known to "have this issue"? Or is it pretty much 100% user error and just ignorant people out on posting on the internet blaming it on the gun?

Your FIL pulled the trigger and the Muzzel was not pointed in a safe direction.
All bets are on him doing something stupid.

[Handloader109]

His thumb was under the slide lock and pushed it up. that's all........

[7Acres]

Does it have an extended slide release lever? Like this one?

Attachment 183695
Click to enlarge.

Nope, don't think so. Here it is...

[Artful]

[7Acres]

Haha! Love it! Couldn't agree more.

[B. Lumpkin]

Hard to argue with that logic. He did some Googling on his cell phone and reported back that apparently 1911s have issues with slides locking back before they're supposed to. I looked at one forum post he showed me and I couldn't make the gun do what that post said causes that particular person's issue (the round pushed forward in the magazine and not seated against the rear of the magazine). That seemed like an asinine assertion to me.

Anyway, in looking at the gun just now the slide lock lever will rest and will not want to catch and lock unless something pushes up on it. Either the mag follower after the last round has been ejected or something external to the gun (operator's thumb). Is this correct?

Also, you guys would know... Are some percentage of 1911s known to "have this issue"? Or is it pretty much 100% user error and just ignorant people out on posting on the internet blaming it on the gun?

Your Father in Law is searching for a place to lay the blame for his unsafe, and negligent actions. The blame is his, not the guns. Please have a polite discussion with him concerning safety rules. He could have killed you.

Treat, never, keep, keep.

[contender1]

I own one of those exact guns. I also shoot USPSA competition, and I am a CRO. Realize that the most likely cause will be operator error,, and it's EASY to accidentally allow the thumb to apply enough pressure to where the slide lock engages and yet there can still be rounds in the magazine or chamber. I've seen a lot of shooters,,, have similar issues in matches. Don't chastise your father TOO much,, but I too fall on the side of it being his fault.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

O.K.--just trying to help with a "shot in the dark." The kind pictured in my photo can engage themselves by recoil if fitted too loosely. Obviously not your problem.

[country gent]

It dosnt take much pressure to engage the Slide lock with your thumb and recoil can cause it also. A thumb to high under it and the pistols recoil work together to engage it. Several things here that should have been done. Pistol visually checked for clear chamber and empty mag. Slide locked back and mag removed when cleared, at most clubs around here now Open bolt indicators are mandatory. The firearm is open and mag removed this is then inserted into the chamber. My home club has lengths of string trimmer cords cut 10" long out for this use. and last the firearm was being handled during a "safe" time. One thing to get in the habit of is checking each others fiream for clear status when practicing. You both clear then he checks yours and you check His. The other issue here is Saftey was off and hammer was cocked and considered safe. He must have had a decent grip on it as he also had disengaged the grip saftey on this firearm. Alot of mechanicals would have needed to fail for this to happen otherwise.

[EDG]

There is no real sane reason to let the slide run home while continuing to handle the gun.
Operator error even if the gun malfunctioned some way. You don't need to let the slide down and then carry the gun down range.

I shot skeet for a decade and never saw one negligent discharge. In skeet the rule is the action is always open except at the firing station immediately before it is fired.
Anyone with a closed bolt or double gun action gets reamed.