Poor man's Blackout - 100gn subsonic .223 Rem

[Hamish]

Sign up for what? Im not seeing where there has been any discussion of dimensions???

[Smoke4320]

Yes it will all depend on an actual drawing with dimensions

[Smoke4320]

Crickets

[dkf]

We have been discussing it and kicking around drawings over at the NOE forum.

[Smoke4320]

OK thanks for the heads up.
Will go there today

[Whistler]

+2gn without lube groove.

Please sign up here:
http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....c,1853.30.html

[Elkins45]

to you guys that shoot a lot of 22 cal cast bullets. Do you think a hp option would help make this bullet expand or is the nose just to small to make a pin for or to small to produce expansion?

Cup point is a possibility, maybe. The cup point pins that came with my 311299 RG might work on a 22 nose.

[Tmaloy]

Swede has started sign ups for this mold need 6 more.

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....ic,1868.0.html

[Lloyd Smale]

thanks, went and signed up.

[Whistler]

Only one needed now. Sign up for yours!

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....ic,1868.0.html

[cornmastah]

Swede is working on these. I stopped by the shop and grabbed one of the proof molds and cast up "a few." This is what they look like with the lube groove. I ordered mine without the groove. Anybody got ideas for powders to run this subsonic? With light charges of lilgun and 1680 etc... I would think that detonation might be a concern.

[Whistler]

Got mine later yesterday and today it was a thrill to start using it!
I did however have to deburr the venting lines where they meet the cavities. Not a big deal, but a little unexpected on a $120 mold.

As usual with a brass mold it needs really high temperature to get 100% fillout, but when it does.. oh boy, what beautiful bullets!

I don't have my .225 sizing die yet, so it will be a while before sizing and loading.

[SUIScide]

Any results from this boolit in the wild? I tried it in my 1:7 twist 22 Hornet, and got keyholes at 30 yards. I used 3.2 grains of Red Dot which was definitely supersonic. Maybe too fast to grab the rifling? I'm no CB expert by any means but just prior to shooting this boolit I shot five of the NOE 70 RN into half an inch (with 2.8 grains of red dot)

[Whistler]

Bullets sized .2246". Slight extrusion of the base (can be seen on the picture), will have a friend turn a new push through plug that is slightly larger.

I bought the NOE .225 expander for the Lee Universal die. When using the entire length of the expander the bullet dropped straight through to the bottom of the case. I reset the die to just slightly flare the case mouth to get the bullet started, will pull a bullet and see if it is swaged down. Loaded mine up using Fiocchi brass (GFL stamp) for their thin case necks.

I had to seat the bullet a bit further down than max SAAMI length (2.260" / 57.4 mm), which was expected of the flat nose profile. At 2.244" / 57.0mm there was a slight pull on the bullet when ejecting from chamber. On the photo they are 2.236" / 56.8 mm and will clear the chamber.

Load is 13.0gn Norma 200. Will see tomorrow if it cycles and hit the targets at 50m to start with.

[Whistler]

Today I shot the load in the previous post, 13.0gn Norma 200.
This was at 50 yards with my JP AR15, rifle gas length on 18" barrel with 1:8" twist.
Holes are cut clean, no tendencies for keyholing. Rifle ejected spent brass but did not cycle a new round.
I have NO idea why two shots went low. The damage done to the target is because there was a board to hold the target that both bullets went through.

QuickLoad numbers:
2.236" / 56.8 mm cartridge length
13.0gn Norma 200
1685 fps (170 Power Factor)
58% fill rate
96.8% burn rate
21400 PSI chamber pressure
6100 PSI muzzle pressure
~9000 PSI gas port pressure

[Whistler]

Some new numbers!

I increased the load above with 0.5 gn to this:

2.236" / 56.8 mm cartridge length
13.5gn Norma 200
1740 fps (176 Power Factor)
61% fill rate
98% burn rate
23500 PSI chamber pressure
6350 PSI muzzle pressure
~9400 PSI gas port pressure

This would NOT cycle the bolt to lock on empty mag!

I changed to a slower powder:

2.236" / 56.8 mm cartridge length
16.0gn Norma 203B
1705 fps (172 Power Factor)
74% fill rate
84% burn rate
21000 PSI chamber pressure
6700 PSI muzzle pressure
~9450 PSI gas port pressure

This load DID lock the bolt on empty mag!

These loads look very much the same as to velocity, but the slower powder probably gives the port gas under a longer timeframe. Promising!
Hopefully I can test more for accuracy tomorrow.

[Whistler]

Below is test firing of 16.0 gn Norma 203B for groups. Feeding in semiauto was superb, everything ran smooth.
Same tendencies as 13.0 gn Norma 200; first three shots are OK, then the last two keywhole far away (circled red in the top of the photo).

There is some slight instability showing on the three grouped shots.
I'm thinking about three possible errors:
* not enough velocity
* bullet too small
* base is not uniform enough for the high rotation

[Whistler]

I gently filed five bullets so the bases had no extruded PC around the edges. No more keyholes. No more fliers. The group of 3" at 50 yards is not great, actually it is pretty lousy by rifle standards, but it will do for now.

The trick now is how to avoid the issue in the future. It doesn't matter if the bases are covered or not, since the extruded PC comes from the sides of the bullet. I will start with a larger base pin for the pushthrough die to see if the wider area of force on the base will keep the PC from going over the edges.

[Whistler]

Success! Sizing the bullets base first gave the same groups as the filed bases.
However, it required tremendous force to size and the noses get bent and deformed. This makes the seater die unable to seat completely straight.

My friend will make a new punch for the push through die that is wide enough to not allow any extrusion. I will see how this goes. It does feel like I'm closing in on a solution.

[SUIScide]

Thanks for keeping us posted! I've had some other chores get in my way (spring is a busy time for a beekeeper) so I have fiddled with bullet anymore. The ones I fired were unsized and chamb red fine in the sloppy 22 hornet chamber at 0.228". Next thing is to try some sized at 0.226 and see how they do