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Thread: Poor man's Blackout - 100gn subsonic .223 Rem

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    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
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    Poor man's Blackout - 100gn subsonic .223 Rem

    Two designs I would like to see for the .223 Rem is the 6.5x55 160gn "cruise missile" and the .300 Blackout 230gn. Shouldn't be all too hard to draw them, maybe the Mountain Mold software could be used?

    I would really like a 100gn plainbase design that could be driven to 1550-1600 fps for cheap IPSC competition, and for most guys it could fill the subsonic wants for those reluctant to get a Blackout. Most 1:7 or 1:8 barrels should be able to stabilize such a bullet Up to moderate rifle distance like 100-300 yards.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
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    I did some calculation on the Lee 230gn.
    If the weight to length ratio is maintained the Lee 230gn in a .225 version would be 0.99" long and weigh 167 grains. Of course the same mag length restriction applies and the .223 Rem has way less bullet outside the case. This is just to show that it could probably be done with a shorter 100 grain version.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
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    Here's a fun thing. Factory 100 grain .223 Remington. Apparently ~950 fps for subsonic use through standard AR-systems.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Guess this could be a suitable nose profile, then just a straight plainbase design below the neck and keep grooves to a minimum, run it powder coated and let it fly...
    Last edited by Whistler; 12-27-2016 at 03:52 AM.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

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    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
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    Here are some j-word match bullets in .224 to compare to.
    The 90 grainer would probably be about 95 gn if not boat tailed. Nose would probably have to be flatter as to not be bent or broken from hitting the feed ramps.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Does any of these heavy .224 diameter bullets cycle an AR with subsonic loads? I've fired a few subs in my 5.56 with carbine gas system, they're quiet thru a suppressor, but won't even move the bolt. No bolt movement really helps keep the noise down.

    Ken H>

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    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
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    The 100gn factory ammo I showed a picture of claims to cycle any standard AR.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

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    Whistler,

    Interesting idea. Might want to post it up at NOE in the Group Buy Discussion area.

    http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....hoqp7o4hr5k072
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    "Control the things you can control, maggot. Let everything else take a flying (leap) at you, and if you must go down, go down with your guns blazing."- The Dark Tower, Steven King


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    Boolit Master minmax's Avatar
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    Attachment not working on my end.
    Start CASTING or get off the POT!

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    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
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    Hamish: NOE is usually a no go for me. Price go up 25% because of US export tax for us Europeans, I'd much rather go with Mihec. Better molds in my opinion and way cheaper.

    minmax: Here is some info on the 100gn .223 Ammo. http://www.ammoland.com/2010/12/extr...sp-ammunition/
    Last edited by Whistler; 12-27-2016 at 04:00 AM.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Well then, have you sent him a PM??
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    "Control the things you can control, maggot. Let everything else take a flying (leap) at you, and if you must go down, go down with your guns blazing."- The Dark Tower, Steven King


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    id be interested in a 100 grain bullet for subsonic 5.56. It would have to be designed to work. Most of the heavy jacketed bullets when seated deap enough to run the action tend to not be gripped by the case mouth and fall into the case.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

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    Boolit Master


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    Keep in mind the barrel twist needs to be correct for these bullets otherwise your just wasting your time.

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    Boolit Master dkf's Avatar
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    Outlaw State bullets makes a 100gr .224" jacketed bullet. Probably best to copy that bullet profile so it can be run at 2.260" COAL or shorter. http://outlawstatebullets.com/12.html

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    I would be up for this if we could prove it would feed in a std at setup .. 1-7 twist would be a must 1-8 or 1-9 would not stabilize

    NOE or MP if done quickly
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

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    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
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    Smoke4320: I ran some figures in Berger's twist rate calculator, trying to get as close as possible to what we're trying to achieve here.
    Based on the length value on the bullet above (outlaw 100gn):

    Length 1.047"
    Estimated BC: 0.500
    Weight: 100 grains

    At 1000 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 1.83)
    1:8 twist - Marginally stable (SG 1.40)
    1:10 twist - Unstable (SG 0.90)

    At 1250 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 1.97)
    1:8 twist - Stable (SG 1.51)
    1:10 twist - Unstable (SG 0.97)

    At 1500 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 2.10)
    1:8 twist - Stable (SG 1.61)
    1:10 twist - Marginally stable (SG 1.03)

    So for subsonic use you would have to have a 1:7 twist, but for competition use reaching power factor 150 you could get away with a 1:8 as long as distances are not too far and for plinking use you could go with 1:10 as long as you keep velocities up there.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Mountain moulds says Miller twist formula suggests 9.1" for a 100gr 80% meplat , nose at .4 " long with a .15" bore ride and base @ 1600 fps reduced to 97.2 gr it needs only 9.3" .
    Reduced to 95 gr it stretches to 9.5"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whistler View Post
    Smoke4320: I ran some figures in Berger's twist rate calculator, trying to get as close as possible to what we're trying to achieve here.
    Based on the length value on the bullet above (outlaw 100gn):

    Length 1.047"
    Estimated BC: 0.500
    Weight: 100 grains

    At 1000 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 1.83)
    1:8 twist - Marginally stable (SG 1.40)
    1:10 twist - Unstable (SG 0.90)

    At 1250 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 1.97)
    1:8 twist - Stable (SG 1.51)
    1:10 twist - Unstable (SG 0.97)

    At 1500 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 2.10)
    1:8 twist - Stable (SG 1.61)
    1:10 twist - Marginally stable (SG 1.03)

    So for subsonic use you would have to have a 1:7 twist, but for competition use reaching power factor 150 you could get away with a 1:8 as long as distances are not too far and for plinking use you could go with 1:10 as long as you keep velocities up there.
    yes I should have stated for Subsonic use 1-7 ..

    still interested !!
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder and Sure-Kill deer and cover scents

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
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    I've sent a PM to Mihec with the pic of the 100gn Outlaw and a link to this thread. Will update when (if) answered.
    If you are interested, write in this thread to increase probability of an active group buy.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  20. #20
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    No lube grooves... perfect to powdercoat
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder and Sure-Kill deer and cover scents

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

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