Lee PrecisionInline FabricationRotoMetals2MidSouth Shooters Supply
RepackboxReloading EverythingLoad DataWideners
Titan Reloading
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 62

Thread: Poor man's Blackout - 100gn subsonic .223 Rem

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    524

    Poor man's Blackout - 100gn subsonic .223 Rem

    Two designs I would like to see for the .223 Rem is the 6.5x55 160gn "cruise missile" and the .300 Blackout 230gn. Shouldn't be all too hard to draw them, maybe the Mountain Mold software could be used?

    I would really like a 100gn plainbase design that could be driven to 1550-1600 fps for cheap IPSC competition, and for most guys it could fill the subsonic wants for those reluctant to get a Blackout. Most 1:7 or 1:8 barrels should be able to stabilize such a bullet Up to moderate rifle distance like 100-300 yards.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    524
    I did some calculation on the Lee 230gn.
    If the weight to length ratio is maintained the Lee 230gn in a .225 version would be 0.99" long and weigh 167 grains. Of course the same mag length restriction applies and the .223 Rem has way less bullet outside the case. This is just to show that it could probably be done with a shorter 100 grain version.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    524
    Here's a fun thing. Factory 100 grain .223 Remington. Apparently ~950 fps for subsonic use through standard AR-systems.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	extreme-shock-223-100-ASP-Ammo.jpg 
Views:	78 
Size:	34.4 KB 
ID:	183567

    Guess this could be a suitable nose profile, then just a straight plainbase design below the neck and keep grooves to a minimum, run it powder coated and let it fly...
    Last edited by Whistler; 12-27-2016 at 03:52 AM.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    524
    Here are some j-word match bullets in .224 to compare to.
    The 90 grainer would probably be about 95 gn if not boat tailed. Nose would probably have to be flatter as to not be bent or broken from hitting the feed ramps.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	224heavybullets.jpg 
Views:	79 
Size:	31.2 KB 
ID:	183548
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Baldwin Co, across bay from Mobile, AL
    Posts
    1,125
    Does any of these heavy .224 diameter bullets cycle an AR with subsonic loads? I've fired a few subs in my 5.56 with carbine gas system, they're quiet thru a suppressor, but won't even move the bolt. No bolt movement really helps keep the noise down.

    Ken H>

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    524
    The 100gn factory ammo I showed a picture of claims to cycle any standard AR.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    Hamish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Edge of The Crab Orchard National Wildlife Refuge
    Posts
    3,569
    Whistler,

    Interesting idea. Might want to post it up at NOE in the Group Buy Discussion area.

    http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....hoqp7o4hr5k072
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

    "Dueling should have never been made illegal in this country. It settled lots of issues between folks."- Char-Gar

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy minmax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    el paso, tx/ann arbor mi
    Posts
    247
    Attachment not working on my end.
    Start CASTING or get off the POT!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    524
    Hamish: NOE is usually a no go for me. Price go up 25% because of US export tax for us Europeans, I'd much rather go with Mihec. Better molds in my opinion and way cheaper.

    minmax: Here is some info on the 100gn .223 Ammo. http://www.ammoland.com/2010/12/extr...sp-ammunition/
    Last edited by Whistler; 12-27-2016 at 04:00 AM.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    Hamish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Edge of The Crab Orchard National Wildlife Refuge
    Posts
    3,569
    Well then, have you sent him a PM??
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

    "Dueling should have never been made illegal in this country. It settled lots of issues between folks."- Char-Gar

  11. #11
    Banned








    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    17,725
    id be interested in a 100 grain bullet for subsonic 5.56. It would have to be designed to work. Most of the heavy jacketed bullets when seated deap enough to run the action tend to not be gripped by the case mouth and fall into the case.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    5,526
    Keep in mind the barrel twist needs to be correct for these bullets otherwise your just wasting your time.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master dkf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    1,555
    Outlaw State bullets makes a 100gr .224" jacketed bullet. Probably best to copy that bullet profile so it can be run at 2.260" COAL or shorter. http://outlawstatebullets.com/12.html

  14. #14
    Vendor Sponsor

    Smoke4320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Right here ..at least I was a minute ago
    Posts
    5,046
    I would be up for this if we could prove it would feed in a std at setup .. 1-7 twist would be a must 1-8 or 1-9 would not stabilize

    NOE or MP if done quickly
    [SIZE=4][B]Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    524
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100gn lead 223.jpg 
Views:	95 
Size:	32.2 KB 
ID:	183611
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    524
    Smoke4320: I ran some figures in Berger's twist rate calculator, trying to get as close as possible to what we're trying to achieve here.
    Based on the length value on the bullet above (outlaw 100gn):

    Length 1.047"
    Estimated BC: 0.500
    Weight: 100 grains

    At 1000 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 1.83)
    1:8 twist - Marginally stable (SG 1.40)
    1:10 twist - Unstable (SG 0.90)

    At 1250 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 1.97)
    1:8 twist - Stable (SG 1.51)
    1:10 twist - Unstable (SG 0.97)

    At 1500 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 2.10)
    1:8 twist - Stable (SG 1.61)
    1:10 twist - Marginally stable (SG 1.03)

    So for subsonic use you would have to have a 1:7 twist, but for competition use reaching power factor 150 you could get away with a 1:8 as long as distances are not too far and for plinking use you could go with 1:10 as long as you keep velocities up there.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    120 miles North of Texarkana 9 miles from OK in the green hell
    Posts
    5,347
    Mountain moulds says Miller twist formula suggests 9.1" for a 100gr 80% meplat , nose at .4 " long with a .15" bore ride and base @ 1600 fps reduced to 97.2 gr it needs only 9.3" .
    Reduced to 95 gr it stretches to 9.5"
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  18. #18
    Vendor Sponsor

    Smoke4320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Right here ..at least I was a minute ago
    Posts
    5,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Whistler View Post
    Smoke4320: I ran some figures in Berger's twist rate calculator, trying to get as close as possible to what we're trying to achieve here.
    Based on the length value on the bullet above (outlaw 100gn):

    Length 1.047"
    Estimated BC: 0.500
    Weight: 100 grains

    At 1000 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 1.83)
    1:8 twist - Marginally stable (SG 1.40)
    1:10 twist - Unstable (SG 0.90)

    At 1250 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 1.97)
    1:8 twist - Stable (SG 1.51)
    1:10 twist - Unstable (SG 0.97)

    At 1500 fps
    1:7 twist - Stable (SG 2.10)
    1:8 twist - Stable (SG 1.61)
    1:10 twist - Marginally stable (SG 1.03)

    So for subsonic use you would have to have a 1:7 twist, but for competition use reaching power factor 150 you could get away with a 1:8 as long as distances are not too far and for plinking use you could go with 1:10 as long as you keep velocities up there.
    yes I should have stated for Subsonic use 1-7 ..

    still interested !!
    [SIZE=4][B]Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    524
    I've sent a PM to Mihec with the pic of the 100gn Outlaw and a link to this thread. Will update when (if) answered.
    If you are interested, write in this thread to increase probability of an active group buy.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  20. #20
    Vendor Sponsor

    Smoke4320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Right here ..at least I was a minute ago
    Posts
    5,046
    No lube grooves... perfect to powdercoat
    [SIZE=4][B]Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check