Beautiful Tool Development photo, Give a better idea of its size than the Finish photo shown earlier in thread.
Chev. William
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Beautiful Tool Development photo, Give a better idea of its size than the Finish photo shown earlier in thread.
Chev. William
I know what you mean. Accuracy is a healthy addiction. If you are going for a schutzen model then I would agree with using the .32-40 then if you want to go to the 200 yard line your ready. Another nice thing about cpa's is you can get multiple barrels. If you want you could have a.32 long for 50 yards and the.32-40 for 200 yard targets.
I'm new at this but it seems like the 32-20 CPA Caliber will accomplish everything I want. It's the 32-20 case with .321 bore. The cases are cheap so having plenty primed and charged is no problem. I think cases will last forever if you are not resizing them. If you are using smokeless powder the little 32-20 has plenty of capacity for 200yds if you are breech seating.
Considering the added accuracy of breech seating I can't justify the extra expense of a barrel for a more convenient caliber.
Way back when, I shot at a Coors Regional Match in Tacoma, WA. I won the Media/Celebrity Match, shot a 247-7X using a Clerk Serrifile HW replica in 32-40 that belonged to a serious competitor. Gorgeous day, zero conditions.
Then, I got invited to the Nationals in Golden, CO. That match I also was lucky enough to win, shot a 24?-?X in wind. I shot Dean Miller's rifle, my lucky day. He was shooting a 32 Miller, the 357 Maximum tapered to .32 caliber. We sat together at a table in front of his motorhome. We talked about the fact that is shot as well as the 32-40, but not any better, looking at 50-shot aggs.
I had been to the Super Shoot that summer, and marveled at the consistency and accuracy of the 6mmPPC. I suggested shortening the case to take loading density from 35%+/- up to 60-65%.
I designed a wildcat 25 caliber cartridge, based on the 6,5x68 S, and wrote an article for Precision Shooting Magazine. The reamer was from Keith Francis at JGS. I took a picture of the reamer print, with a loaded round laying on it, and editor Dave Brennan used it for a cover. JGS kindly offered me a credit for that reamer and go/nogo gauges. So Dean and I are sitting there, and I say, "why not just shorten it 1/4"? He thinks that might work, but informed me that a set of reamers would cost nearly $350. I whip out the credit letter, draw the case, which ended up 1.270" and we send it off.
The next Spring, the weekend after Easter, wife and I are invited to St Onge, SD, to view the rifle he was building for me. We get there, go out to his range, and start loading and breech seating bullets. 1.5" center ring. First 10-shot group scores a 246, up half a grain, 248, half a grain more, and a 249. And that, is how the 32 Miller Short came to be.
If you would breech-seat, you should shoot 10-shot groups consistently under 2" from the bench, at 200yds. Every Schuetzen Nationals since then (1992, iirc) has been won by that cartridge and AA#9.
Pauls 32-20 is nearly that accurate. Choose one of the two and learn to breech seat.
My thoughts on this: sounds good but you'd be better off to just skip to option #3 and have it chambered to a 32-40. I know too many people that have tired fussing with that 32-20 Shuttleworth round and even one friend that was so sick with it he has abandoned his classic Stevens 44 1/2 that Shuttleworth rebuilt for him and talked him into the 32-20. The gun has been sitting in his closet now for 3 or 4 years. Paul Shuttleworth has done well with that round but a lot of other people haven't.Originally Posted by GARD72977
I wish you luck if you choose the 32-20.
Oh, and I own two of the Cpa's. I love mine
Kcajeel
I didn't expect to hear the problems. I thought I had this figured out. Maybe I need to do more studying.
Don't fret it happens to all of us. though if you are looking at the shorter .32's I would suggest the plain .32-20 and not cpa's version just in case you ever decide to sell it. The standard caliber might be an easier sell.
I have a friend who got a CPA in .32-20CPA a year ago. He tried everything to get it shooting as well as he hoped, and is a very finicky reloader. But after a year of messing with it, he finally gave up and is sending it back to CPA to have it rechambered to .32-40 now. A much better choice, and a lot easier to get accuracy out of.
I think I have been reading his post on ASSRA. It has me rethinking what caliber.
I have one, 32-20 CPA. Had it going on five years. Mine shoots great. Still I play with bullets and new powders. Can't stop tinkering but nothing wrong with the chambering. It is the equal of the 32 Miller short.
Nothing wrong with the 32-40 - not at all but the Miller is the rifle to beat but the rifleman has to know how to use it too.
The OP wants an offhand rifle- The accuracy of the 32-20 CPA is outstanding from bench - it has recorded countless 250's. For offhand I doubt any perceived weakness will be do to the chambering but maybe the rifleman.
Just my two penny's worth - I respect others as well but sometimes an individual rifle or barrel is the trouble and not the whole class of chambering.
Chill Wills
Is there any downside to just going with the 32 Miller short?
Non I can think of except the case is made from the 357 Maximum. They have been hard to find but Starline is now making them. I do not know if the inside specs are close enough or not but likely the Starline are fine too.
I have a friend that is working up a bunch of Starline 357 Max brass right now he has not got around to shooting any yet with the temps running from below zero to the low 20's but it'll warm up one of these days? I hope! Anyway the Starline brass is much more consistent that my older Rem 357 Max brass the weights are much better, the primer pockets are more consistent and the flash holes are already chamfered the brass is harder and needs to be annealed before sizing though other wise you will have a few cases fold a crease in the sides.
My old Rem brass was much softer but the actual weight of the brass was all over the place the primers pockets had to be uniformed and the flash holes were terrible, off centered some larger and some smaller and had to chamfer the inside to hopefully get a uniform flash hole length this may be why the weights were so different?
In my opinion the 32-40 is easier to work with but the 32 Miller Short is very accurate maybe the best? It is touchy you have to pay close attention because you can raise pressures very quickly temperatures seem to have a effect with it too! A lot of the ASSRA top shooters are going back to the 32-40 to get away from the sensitive small case of the 32 Miller Short. If you don't mind tweaking with stuff and experimenting a lot the 32 Miller Short is hard to beat.
Good Luck!
Last edited by rhbrink; 12-19-2016 at 05:42 PM.
I would save my nickels and have a multi-barrel setup made. .32-40, .32 Miller, and .22LR- any combination, 2 out of the 3. Once you're spending that kind of money for a CPA, what's a little extra to have a second barrel (and/or breechblock) made?
A second barrel for a CPA is a great idea, and not that badly priced. ($600) But make that second barrel a .22RF, and suddenly it's not "a little extra" anymore. The cost of adding a second .22RF barrel could easily buy a pretty nice .22 rifle. With the $600 barrel, and another breechblock, extractor, forearm, sight; it's going to add well over $1,000 to the base rifle.
Its really confusing but you have it down to a caliber, the 32, now you need to get specific design. Almost all of the previously mentioned cartridges can be rechambered in 32-40. If it comes down to that. Just remember to order the barrel with a twist that is compatible with what might be the final choice. I imagine the "final choice" would be the 32-40.
To me it's a no brainer. I love the 32-40. The only negative comment I can say about it is that most loadings will only use about a third of your case capacity. You will have to be careful you don't double charge your case. I use a simple method. After I charge all my cases I double check the powder with a marked dowel rod. You take a dowel rod and insert it into a case thats charged with the correct amount of powder for your loading. Have the cartridge case standing verticle, dowel rod resting on the powder, mark a line on the dowel rod at the mouth of the cartridge. Now double check all your cases with this measuring dowel. I write on the measuring dowel my loading ( 14.5 gr. - 300 MP ). I double check all my cases religiously. Thats the only negative I can find with the 32-40. Woops, I forgot the cases are beginning to be hard to find but they last forever if you have them. You can reform 38-55's and Starline has them sometimes.
Jack
After a lot of research the 32 Miller short fits my needs for a lot of reasons.
I have seen several original rifles at a price I would pay. Almost all the originals are 32-40.
I guess it just depends on what I find when I have money in hand!
Correct. But my thinking is that if a guy can afford multiple thousand dollars for his dream rifle, it's not a stretch to add another grand for the rimfire setup. That $1000 would truly buy a dandy .22- it's what I spent for a minty 52A last summer. But on the other hand, a multi-caliber CPA has a lot of sex appeal too. The older I get the more I lean toward owning a few guns of high interest/personal appeal/value than I do toward owning a lot of guns simply because a lot of guns lining the rack feed my ego. Just me.
When we shoot our regular cast bullet matches we shoot the large bore bench first. Then we shoot the large bore offhand next. Score targets and move to the rimfire line. Then change the rifle over to the rimfire barrel. Remove barrel. remove pins and lever, remove center fire block, reinstall rimfire block, reinstall lever, install rimfire barrel, change sight settings and hope you wrote down what you used last time. Now you can start practicing to get your sights back on.
Now after you finish your rimfire match you have to change back to the center fire setup. Hope you didn't forget to write down your sight settings when you finished up before you changed to the rimfire setup. Or how about buying another rifle all set up for rimfire and forget all that.
It can get pretty expensive.
I have no real interest in a 22 rimfire. The only thing that would excite me is an original rolling block or falling block that has been relined.
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