28 Gauge Roundball

[northmn]

I often post on a shotgun site and came across a question concerning the 28 ga and use of the BPI round ball combination. I do not use shotguns on deer as I live in a rifle zone. However, my curiosity got aroused but the question on the 28. I have shot a lot of smoothbore round ball out of a Black powder fowlers and muskets, just not cartridge guns. Read a lot of threads on this site and found almost nothing on the 28. While the 28 is small, the 50 cal round ball is usable. The BPI works on the principle I think where the ball rests in a plastic cup on a gas sealing wad to keep it from rattling down the bore. Its still very undersized.
Could one use a 54 or bore fitting ball and a cylinder bore choke with fair results??
I often put up firewood during deer season and a shotgun would be handy as I could shoot either grouse or deer. See quite a number of deer off the tractor. (I have a 12 ga Stevens single shot that would also work) 28 gauge users seem to be addicted to the bore and want to use the things on everything from geese and turkeys, using tungsten shot, to doves and quail. Don't try to tell them it is a bit small for any use. I have one but only use it on ruffed grouse. Still the question came up and I do see a lot of overlap between muzzle loaders and cartridges. ML's don't have forcing cones and chamber limitations and can used a greased patched round ball which I think might cause problems in a modern shotgun.

DEP

[Ithaca Gunner]

I've never had a 28ga. and have limited my round ball experimenting to a 12ga. Ithaca M-37 with a smooth bore Deer Slayer barrel for the most part, (pics and more text in the 12ga. round ball thread). The Ithaca barrel is straight bored to .700" and a LEE .690 rb. works great with the BPI Brush wad, even with 3 .31 buckshot under it, around 2.5" group at 50yds.

[dverna]

I love my 28 ga for bird hunting. Light and quick.

For a tractor gun to shoot deer and grouse, I think your 12 ga is a far better choice.

Don Verna

[Mk42gunner]

I've shot exactly one round of skeet with a borrowed 28 ga o/u twenty some years ago, so of course I have plenty of experience to tell you what works and what doesn't.

Will an rb from a 28 kill a deer? Yes. Getting it to shoot accurately enough may be a very different story though.

Frankly, from my vast experience, it seemed like an easier to hit with .410. Which I did grow up shooting, and quite honestly moved to using a 12, 20 or my favorite 16 ga whenever possible.

Robert

[northmn]

28 is not loaded with rifled slugs nor have I seen anything other than the BPI available. To be frank, I probably would use the 12 single shot off the tractor. I also have a 20 ga single shot, a semi auto and a SXS. I sometimes use the 28 during grouse season. Like I said the issue arouses my curiosity as the 28 is getting more popular. A few years ago you never saw one in a sporting goods store, now I see quite a few.

DP

[beagle]

Do a little research and you can probably come up with a RB of the right diameter. Last fall, I did load some buckshot for a 28 gauge and that worked all right. Not a power house load but they'd do for self defense./beagle

[elvas]

Or you can use the Lyman 20 gauge sabot slug sized down at bore diameter.

[bikerbeans]

CB member Uncle Dino has 28ga hollow base slugs you might be interested in trying.

BB

[Lonegun1894]

My 28ga is a cylinder-bore flintlock that I use patched round balls in. If you need, I can cast you some .490", 526", .527", and .530" RBs for testing, and want to say there is a .515" RB in my collection too, but would have to check. With mine, the exact diameter of RB and thickness of cloth makes a huge difference in accuracy, so I would assume the same would hold true with a shot cup or wad.

[northmn]

I used to build muzzle loaders and shoot them in competition. I have a 20 ga "smooth rifle" and a 12 fowler. A 25 squirrel rifle, a 40 target flintlock, a 54 and 58 cal rifle. I thank you for the offer but think I can find a ball size that would work.
I can get pretty good accuracy out of my flintlock 20 ga by positioning the ball for loading consistently and with the proper patching. Problem with a modern shotgun is that you have a jump into forcing cones from the chamber. My 28 SXS is also fixed choked. Seems from reading that most shot cups are about .020 and a 50 cal ball would be about a 54. Had one "28" ML that was almost a perfect 530 as the ball fit almost perfectly down the bore. I could get one to shoot no sweat out of a fowler.

DEP

[Lonegun1894]

Sounds like you have things covered. And definitely have my attention with this project.

[Maven]

I googled gauge to caliber conversion and came up with .550" diameter and .559" diameter for a 28ga. RB. According to Beartooth Bullets Ballistician's Corner, a .550" pure Pb RB weighs 251gr. while a .559" one weighs 263gr. Either is plenty heavy for hunting purposes!

Btw, the Beartooth site is http://www.beartoothbullets.com/resc....495&v2=2876.1

[northmn]

I was told Brenneke loads slugs for the 28. Looked them up and they are 3" Keep hearing rumors about 3" 28's but most shotguns are chambered 2 3/4 like mine. Saw a couple with 3" chambers a few years ago. The 28 is getting more popular and makes more sense than the 410 as in for a starter gun.

DP

[Eddie Southgate]

Can you possess deer loads and bird shot loads both while cutting wood / hunting in your state ? In Tennessee that would be illegal . In Tennessee 28 Ga is the minimum slug load the law allows for deer . .410 is not allowed and in my opinion the 28 should not be either . I love my 28 double but it is really not much effective with the shot it was intended for past 35-40 yds with a fairly tight choke . It is light and is a wonder in tight cover for close shooting but I doubt it would be much with a slug . As to the 3" chamber in 28 all I have ever read on it is that it would be a waste . Haven't yet seen one and I don't want one if I do . I don't like 3" in .410 or 20 ga either one and would not expect to like it any better in the 28 . I usually shoot the 2 1/2" shells in mine because they give much better patterns.

That's My 2 cents....Merry Christmas Ya'll
Eddie

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, I think 28ga is marginal at best for all but very small deer. The only real reason to use it is to have a versatile gun for ball and shot, and the 28ga is less likely than larger calibres to be effectively versatile. With birdshot it is more in need of choke to give effective pattern density, so most guns available have it.

It should be about adequate in a muzzle-loader, but few people would want a true cylinder 28ga breech-loader.

[northmn]

Depends on the use and range. AT close range the 28 is as potent if not more than the fabled 44 mag revolver. The Brenneke slug is rated at 285 grains at 1450 fps. You probably can drive the 180-200 grain round balls faster. Lots of game has been shot with a lot less in the BP days. While it is not really my first choice for deer hunting as I live in a rifle zone, it would work at the ranges I have encountered or seen game putting up wood. As to the cylinder bore issue, many 28 ga shotguns are now offered with screw in chokes, especially repeaters, which would lend themselves to slugs or round ball. I load my 28 with 7/8-1oz of shot and it will work fine at close range on grouse with a a cylinder bore. AS to the 410 with slugs, they are not even close to the 28. A ridiculous offering.

DP

[Ballistics in Scotland]

At really close range that is true. But it takes really good shooting to make revolver deer hunting the right thing to do, and you don't have to extend the range far for a ball from a shotgun to fall behind in accuracy. It is nowhere near as good as the hundred yard group being twice as big as the fifty yard one, which with the revolver it virtually is. A ball over double the weight gives more margin for error.

I agree about the .410 slug, except for casual experimentation. As a hunting weapon it is too big for some things, too small for others, and unlikely to be accurate enough for those in the middle.

[Texas by God]

I've done it. I cut the crimp off 1 oz. S&B 28 ga. shells, dumped out the birdshot. Snip the petals off the wad, reinsert with a .530" patched rb and seal with tumble lube. Let dry completely. At 40 yds I could cover 3 shots with my fist. The gun was a NEF Pardner 28 gauge mod choke. I will not use them in my wife's sxs 28 with its thin barrels but the 12 ga frame NEF liked them. I did not chrono them but recoil was similar to shot loads so I'm sure they'd handle close range deer. Best, Thomas.

[northmn]

There is commonly a little confusion between the 410 and the 28. While both shoot about the same load of shot, the 410 is very overloaded for its bore. If you pattern a 28 it pretty much does what it is supposed to do with even patterns. The 410 "full choke" is rated at 25 yards where a 28 is the same as others at 40 yards. While some have said that the 410 13/16 oz load gives no need for the 28, that is generally from those that don't really use one. With a solid slug the 55 cal bore from a 28 gives all kinds of advantages over the 410.
One thing that occurred to me, that I tried in a 12. You could take round split shot sinkers and string them on monofilament and use them. I did that with a 12 and it did not guillotine like some say but wadded together to blow a very impressive hole in a target at 25 yards. Shotguns can have some rather impressive loads.

DP

[Ballistics in Scotland]

American shotgunners have for a long time substituted longer cases for larger bores. Traditionally patterns have suffered, but this is less of a problem now that we have shot cup wads and often, when the highest performance is needed, steel shot. But the 3in. .410 is an extreme example, virtually never used with steel. I see the .410 as a rabbit gun for dense undergrowth, where it appears almost underfoot and is safe in twenty yards, either missed or mangled with a large bore gun. For this the 2½in. .410 is perfectly adequate.

Yes, as a bird gun, the 28ga is far better, and the people who designed the 2½in. light 12ga knew what they were doing. An instructive test is to take a British best gun and a continental one of very similar weight, hang them by the point of balance, and pull them out of the horizontal by a single loop of thread, which can be burned though and release both at exactly the same moment. The best gun will oscillate less far and for less time, because its weight is more central, and produces less moment of inertia. The only one likely to equal it in the same calibre is the two-shot automatic Browning.